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Screw Wagu, BBQ is all about making the worst cuts taste good!

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    Screw Wagu, BBQ is all about making the worst cuts taste good!

    I, for one, am tired of all the BBQ contest shows that feature folks using prime or Wagu beef to make tender BBQ. I think it would be much better to restrict meats to no better than choice, with bonus points for using select. Personally, I think it is a waste of money to buy prime for anything that is not going to be cooked rare or medium rare. Anyone can take a great piece of meat and make it tender. BBQ is all about making a poor cut delicious.

    Call me a reactionary (old fart) but that's how I roll.

    #2
    Just cause its tender don't mean it is right. I seen some bearded pit master overcook a Waygu and that stuff looked pretty crappy.

    If I had the $$ I would sure enough be shipping in some Prime briskets and stocking up freezers and refrigerators.



    Comment


    • Jerod Broussard
      Jerod Broussard commented
      Editing a comment
      95% of I what I cook is Select with plenty repeat customers. Even if 95% were disasters I can't cancel. hehehehe

    • Fine Swine
      Fine Swine commented
      Editing a comment
      I only see choice grade briskets in my local stores. I will have to take a closer look and try a select then a prime brisket.

    • BriggsBBQ
      BriggsBBQ commented
      Editing a comment
      I mostly cook choice because it is marginally more expensive than select. Like .20 a lb. Jerod makes a good point about sometimes you can have a crappy flat but great point on the lower grade cuts.

    #3
    That's one thing that turns me off of competitions. All the big money that must be spent because the judges expect certain things, and Wagyu has been the rage the last few years so many(most?) judges expect melt away tenderness. I'm a KCBS judge and I honestly don't agree with all their judging criteria, I have teeth and I can chew....but that's neither here nor there I guess. I have cooked Select, Choice, Prime, and Wagyu briskets. In my humble, honest opinion, Prime and Wagyu were "the same" as near as I can recall, being months apart. They both were significantly better than the Choice & Select. But the Choice & Select were fine, as I'm not that picky. The Select got crumbly, but was delicious, especially the point.

    Comment


    • Jerod Broussard
      Jerod Broussard commented
      Editing a comment
      The absolute crappiest Select I could find with NO fat in the flat had the best Point. Why? It was not over fatty, it was like a perfect ribeye.

    • Powersmoke_80
      Powersmoke_80 commented
      Editing a comment
      Well since AR has so much clout, why not start a petition to Only allow the use of choice in KCBS comps.
      I nominate Huskee to get this ball roling, I'll sign it!

    #4
    I think: "It depends".

    Maybe I can use an analogy. Bear with me, this takes a little explaining.

    Bob Hall is pretty famous in sports car circles: he is widely known as the father of the Miata, the man who pushed for the concept and then saw that it came to completion as close to that concept as it could. One thing that the engineers were very strict on was that the car was going to be all about jinba ittai, a Japanese phrase that loosely translates as "horse and rider as one". Toward that end, the car is superbly balanced, not just weight-wise but in all parts. The suspension complements the transmission complements the engine. No one thing overpowers another. And toward that end, the original Miata had a 1.6 liter engine that made 90hp.

    "What? Ninety horsepower! How are you going to pass soccer mom in her minivan with that?!!" The car nuts would say. And Bob would answer, "If you can't go fast with ninety horsepower, then nine hundred won't help you."

    And I've seen it, at track days. I've seen 1st generation Miatas track down Porsches, the Porsches would build up a huge lead on the straights and the Miata guys would reel them in when it came to the corners.

    So the analogy is, you don't need a Wagyu or Kobe brisket to win the 4th of July!

    However, there is a corollary to that analogy, and it is: If you CAN go fast with 90 horsepower, then look out when you have 900! Hey, if you know what you're doing, and you don't mind dishing out the greenbacks, prime simply tastes better than select. It doesn't mean that your select is dog food; If it's good, it's good, and properly cooked select is better than mangled Kobe. But properly cooked Kobe is going to be better than select, no matter what.

    Comment


    • Huskee
      Huskee commented
      Editing a comment
      I second that. It just stands to reason that if you can wow with Select, you can triple wow with Wagyu. But I don't think you should have to buy Wagyu @~$200/brisket to feel good about entering a contest

    • boftx
      boftx commented
      Editing a comment
      Huskee hit the nail on the head.

    • BriggsBBQ
      BriggsBBQ commented
      Editing a comment
      To me to be fair the meat should be consistent as possible to measure true cooking skill.

    #5
    i disagree with the OP. Better cuts done properly will always produce better results than crappy cuts done properly. The key word here is "properly".

    Comment


    • Breadhead
      Breadhead commented
      Editing a comment
      +1^ what @Mbmogan said.👍

    • Potkettleblack
      Potkettleblack commented
      Editing a comment
      +2, but I'd consider a mid quality brisket as the trainer, the low quality as the challenge and the high quality to be something you spend on when you know what you're doing.

    #6
    I agree with MBMorgan I don't know how big the difference is between Prime and Wagyu. But, I have never cooked one before. But I will say that a Prime Brisket is much better than Choice and miles ahead of a Select. Thats not to say you can't make good BBQ out of Selects, because you can, But at $2.89/LB for Prime Briskets, why would I buy anything else? And the flavor is so much better and more pronounced.

    boftx I do see your point however. It takes more skill and finesse and get a good brisket out of a select cut, but for me, I'd rather be hitting the smoke in Prime condition.

    Comment


      #7
      I totally agree with Boftx.After 40 years in the kitchen, I have learned a few things: 1, Anyone can make good food with superlative ingredients, but it takes a good cook to make consistent cuisine with varying qualities of those ingredients. 2. Way too many cooks and chefs use ingredient quality to hide their lack of expertise. The flip side of this, is when you see a dish you "should" like, that only features hard to get grades, cuts, and so forth. Most of these type dishes suck. Why? Because it's mostly hype, and hype doesn't make you good. Flavor, texture, aroma, and so forth; THAT'S what makes you good. In other words, we must learn our craft! Our craft is a marathon, not a sprint! When one of notices how much s%#t is out there versus what we make, we KNOW what to do(in our own way).

      I know this may ruffle a few feathers, and this may make some uncomfortable, but it needs to be said: most of the cooking stuff you see on TV, videos, etc., is more hype than substance. This includes BBQ, pizza, or whatever, as most folks putting this stuff out have a vested interest in our collective hunger for good food. Not that this is bad, mind you, but should be taken into account when deciding on purchases of gear and techniques. Training what is between our ears is more important than what's on our grill.



      Comment


      • Huskee
        Huskee commented
        Editing a comment
        Agreed

      • Breadhead
        Breadhead commented
        Editing a comment
        +1^ 👍👍👍

      • Karon Adams
        Karon Adams commented
        Editing a comment
        they also have a vested interest in our NOT being able to reproduce what they make.

      #8
      boftx - I agree with the BBQ competitions. However, for myself when I can buy prime brisket at Costco cheaper than select at Walmart? I'm not really sold on brisket yet anyways, I make pastrami with it. I intend to try to find "good" brisket next week on our trip to San Antonio. Planning to stop in Lockhart to try out Blacks, Kreuz, and Smitties or any other place I can find on the way.

      Comment


      • boftx
        boftx commented
        Editing a comment
        If you want good Texas brisket, come on out to my backyard in Vegas.

      • billg71
        billg71 commented
        Editing a comment
        boftx, I'll take you up on that! I've been wanting to do a photo trip to the Grand Canyon and I'll be flying into Vegas. Not this year but maybe 2017.

        Looking forward to meeting you.

      • boftx
        boftx commented
        Editing a comment
        billg71 Get in touch ahead of time, you'll be welcome.

      #9
      IMHO, the real art of Qing is making a tough, lower quality hunk into something great. It is about the journey, and who is at the table.

      If I'm cooking for me, I'll be happy with doing a select well. If I'm cooking for others, I want to take whatever my skills are with a better piece for meat to serve something great they will enjoy!

      Great thread, boftx !

      Comment


      #10
      Well technically speaking it doesn't matter if it is Select, Choice, Prime, or the platinum freaking grade delivered straight from the meat gods themselves.... they are all the same "cut" and you have to prepare them in similar fashion. You aren't going to take a raw hunk of brisket, slice it, and pan fry it (that i know of anyway).... also... i mean if there is a cow that has been butchered and the butcher said... "well this beef is just too good for anyone to cook so we are going to toss it"... well then I'm not sure I would want to live in that world lol...

      That being said, when it comes to BBQ Competitions, if you do it professionally and are competing for large prize $ then why would you not spend the extra cash to get an edge or at minimum be at the standard. Like Mosca said in a round about way... If you can get calls on choice then imagine what your scores are going to do with prime, etc...
      For the pros it is no different than anyone else in the business world that buys the best materials and resources to get ahead in their business or beat their competition... It is why there are Pro Baseball teams and minor league baseball teams. You want the best to go for the win.

      On a side note I have done a few backyard comps where the meat was provided or onsite and you didn't get a grade selection... everything was consistent. It evens the playing field a little bit but the guys who consistently put up good Q still pull ahead even if this one factor is kept even for everyone.

      I like what richinlbrg said about cooking for himself vs cooking for others... great point... and as far as cooking for others... if it is a situation where you are selling it and you can charge a premium for the good stuff.... then why not. Franklin does it and look at the line at his place!

      Good discussion though.

      Comment


      • Huskee
        Huskee commented
        Editing a comment
        Hmm. Food for thought. Good points.

      #11
      Well, if one person wants to cook select for whatever reason, and another wants to cook prime or higher - let 'em. I hope each gets what they want. I do know that when I get around to cooking that first full packer, it's gonna be choice because I'm sure that I will need all the help I can get, (without breaking the bank). In the end, for me, it's the results that count.

      Comment


        #12
        Great topic. The old saying "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" isn't exactly true for bbq. I try to use the best technique that I can and use some reasonable grade meat. I do have a small freezer partly full of grass fed beef but I've found that Sam's whole prime ribs (with or without bone) sliced about 1.5-2" thick and reverse seared are some of the best eating around. Also, organic chicken from Sam's is downright tasty, also, and not too pricey. Shop the sales!!

        Kajun

        Comment


          #13
          Originally posted by richinlbrg View Post
          IMHO, the real art of Qing is making a tough, lower quality hunk into something great. It is about the journey, and who is at the table.

          If I'm cooking for me, I'll be happy with doing a select well. If I'm cooking for others, I want to take whatever my skills are with a better piece for meat to serve something great they will enjoy!

          Great thread, boftx !
          If I'm cooking for just my wife and I I'm happy to try anything, select, choice or prime. If I'm cooking for others though I've come to realize that I'm better off ordering out.

          Comment


          • richinlbrg
            richinlbrg commented
            Editing a comment
            Don't sell yourself short, ribeyeguy !

            We've seen some of your cooks! GREAT line, though.

          #14
          Prime is worth the money to me on slices
          Yea agreed got some great burnt ends off Walmart no roll briskets

          Comment


            #15
            Now that there has been some discussion I'll add a bit more.

            Using a high grade at home is fine if you want, certainly if you get a good deal on it. My complaint is that for competition I want to see a pitmaster's skill, not the size of their pocketbook, on display. I would also (someday) like to have chance to compete myself, but I want a level playing field to the greatest extent possible. Having to lay out significant money on the meat shouldn't be part of it.

            Comment

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