Brisket Pros: Advice Wanted

[jroller]

Got brisket skills? I need your help.

I’ve made something that you have no use for but your experience might help others along the way. Help me get it right.

On my site, I’ve posted beta versions of two brisket tools, a “how much brisket to buy” calculator and a brisket cook time planner.

Hoping some of you experts will kick the wheels on each of them and share your thoughts, particularly on the accuracy of the info and features you like or would like to see. Any constructive criticism welcome.

i know there are issues to tackle, like - apparently - its mobile-responsive design failings, but I think the core tool is ready for scrutiny…and that’s where your expertise can be most valuable

So thanks in advance for any feedback.

[texastweeter]

It's pretty easy math for me, and I sometimes do VERY large cooks. Plan on 1lb raw untrimmed packer brisket per person if you want some left over, 3/4 lb if not. Start the fire 24 hours before service and have a way to hold.

[DavidNorcross]

Neat concept. Thank you for sharing. I am actually doing a brisket next weekend. I filled in all the information and when I went to select generate plant that button was greyed out. I am using Safari, but it could also be a user error. I think it is a great idea for a lot of folks.

[jroller]

Thanks for taking a look and for the kind words. As I said, just sort of a "beta" level concept at this stage, so room for improvement. Safari user myself. Your situation raises an interesting issue. Just yesterday, I adjusted the code so that the button wouldn't activate until all fields were complete, but clearly this is a bad choice. Since you couldn't click it, you had no feedback as to what required fields were incomplete. I'll make that change. Thanks again.

[Huskee]

Regarding your 'how much to buy' tool: Interesting concept. I can see how this may be helpful for folks completely new to BBQ and fretting over these details. Math is pretty simple with meat buying though, and once you understand 1 general number it's rather simple from there. I can't see you getting repeat visitors to this one, but humans being humans, maybe you will.

For instance, Meathead's cooking for a crowd page suggests an across the board 1/2lb raw weight of meat per person as a good starting point. Of course flexibility is needed, since whether you're feeding a football team or grandma's bridge club will have a large impact, as will whether there will be sides, is the meat intended for sandwiches or as a pasta topper, etc, so use judgement.

Allow me to critique the cook time planner:

It's a novel idea and I can see a lot of planning went into it. But I think it suggests wayyy too extreme of cook times based on your entered brisket weight.

It implies that in order to cook a packer brisket you must cook overnight for tomorrow's dinner, and this is simply not true. Getting up at 4-5am, perhaps, but cooking overnight is not required. I entered a 17lb brisket, standard trim, 250 deg cook, chow time of 6:30pm and it suggests I begin at 9 pm. I've never in my life had to do that. And if you teach everyone this is required, we risk 2 things: 1) steering folks away from learning to master brisket, and 2) risk overcooking the brisket, and ending up with a crumbly, dry mess.

While the meat's weight is a good starting point for cook time, it's not the accurate end-all-be-all many think, since a heavier brisket does not always mean a thicker brisket. And a lighter brisket does not always mean thinner brisket and therefore a quicker cook.

Cook time is related to the meat's thickness, how far the heat has to travel inward to work its magic, but only to an extent. There's a minimal time limit on the other end of that spectrum. A 4 lb flat will not be done in 5.5 hrs, as your tool suggests. It is simply not a linear equation, like how fast you drive gets you there faster; this isn't how meat weight vs cook time works. A small, thinner, brisket still needs time for the heat to work its magic and break down those tough collagens and fats to make it melt-in-your-mouth delicious. A 6-lb brisket flat cooked 5.5hrs at 250 will be tough, not done.

You have the bones of your algorithm for this in place now, which was surely the hardest part of making this, so some tweaks shouldn't be too hard to employ. But a brisket cook has so many intermingling factors that you simply cannot create a linear tool to account for everything.

And I realize you try to note this in your box and in your FAQs.

I would suggest:

1) If you're using us for market research and feedback, then perhaps consider linking back to AmazingRibs.com (not "Amazing Ribs"), and our Pitmaster Club, to help your readers truly understand the thermodynamics of cooking first, and that the meat's weight is less important than the meat's thickness, and packer/flat/point doesn't have as big of an affect on cook time as we think. A longer hunk of meat may take exactly the same time as a short hunk of meat if their thickness is similar, yet the longer pieces weight far more, right? Or, if you're cooking a packer, you're cooking both the point and the flat at the same time, they're just connected, but your tool says they each cook at different times. Which is true? Does it matter?

2) On that note, perhaps adding a means to enter the thickness of the meat to your tool. But stop it somewhere on the low end so it doesn't imply a 5hr cook is adequate for a small flat.Tricky, yes. And even if you did, this tool is a best guess, as we all know BBQ in general is a best guess scenario as far as "done" time.

3) Clarify some terminology. Since this is for a newbie, terms like "wrap once bark is set" may cause your reader to go "Ehhh, huh?" What does "bark is set" mean to someone who needs a timestamped outline to smoke a brisket? Maybe pictures of a brisket at each step along the way as a reference. Maybe some other descriptive terminology. I personally like to delay wrapping until after the stall, say 180ish, because by then the bark is nice & hardy.

3) I'd add some info about trimming, and how it has a pretty big affect on the finished product. Trim too much, especially from the flat, and your slices can be much drier and lackluster. A thicker fat cap (minimal 1/4", but I prefer 1/2") on the flat gives each slice a thicker edge of that soft, salty goodness that makes each bite seem more luscious and 'juicy'. The fat cap doesn't penetrate the meat (there's already fat in the meat, and lots of water) but the fat cap will suddenly become a VERY IMPORTANT delishifier at the end of it all when you're eating the sliced product, particularly the flat.

4) If possible, add a 'more bark' & 'less bark' option. If they select more, have your algorithm suggest wrapping after the stall part, not before.

5) Stress salting the meat long before cooking. Perhaps even add this by default into your timeline no matter the other variables. For instance, on your brining page, you cover wet and dry brining to forensic detail, why not simplify it and suggest your reader dry brine their brisket 24 hrs prior, make that Step 1 by default, with the suggested day/time? Perhaps even compute the numbers automatically for them, whether 2% by weight, or 1/2tsp coarse Kosher salt, or 1/4tsp table salt per lb that they've entered into your tool, and include it there in Step 1? Link to your brining page's dry brining instruction, but keep it simple. Newbies need simple. Don't overwhelm them with too much detail.

You do stress in a couple spots that your times are general guidelines and not definite, and that's great since a brisket smoke is not baking bread. Teaching folks to watch a clock isn't a great approach, yet newbies need it sorted out this way, don't they? Good job on stressing that done temps can be 195-205, instead of the "203" god everyone wants to worship.

Flexible cook temps might be a nice touch, but it's not that important as I see it. You have the big 3 ranges covered. Some folks might cook at 300, but those would be outliers.

Otherwise, a helpful tool for those intimidated by the process of buying & cooking a brisket!

[jroller]

Working on implementing your suggestions now. Will report back when updated

[shify]

To your trimming comment, I would also recommend that your weight estimates are post-trimmed weight and that trimming a brisket could result in 2-3 lbs worth of trim.

I can see someone going out to buy a 10 lb whole brisket and getting shocked (if they trim it) when it becomes a 7.5 lb brisket when its ready to cook

[jroller]

Huskee, updated version with many of your suggestions live on the page now. Will get “delishifier” properly attributed on next update!

[bbq_esq]

Super long heated rest for brisket makes the timing stuff so easy.

[DavidNorcross]

I have tried again. I am still not able to select Generate Plan. I double checked and have selected all required fields.

[dpearce]

jroller We increment a version number on our web apps, that displays in the footer. That way, if someone has a problem, we're at least able to verify they're loading the right version. Saved us quite a few hassles over updates.

[DavidNorcross]

jroller It must have been a cache issue. It worked in a private browser. This is a handy tool.

[jroller]

dpearce, good idea. I'll add it to the list. DavidNorcross, good to hear. Still implementing improvements, so if you see anything, let me know. Thanks

[jroller]

Super long heated rest for brisket makes the timing stuff so easy.

How long is super long?

[bbq_esq]

I have gone as long as 6-7 hours, I know people have gone as long a 12. As long as you have something to keep it at a steady temp for a while.

[jroller]

@bbq-esq, thanks. That's kind of the range I assumed you meant, but was just curious.

[texastweeter]

This is why I light the fire 24 hours before service. With big cooks I have had all kinds of stuff go wrong, and never had to delay the start time. Grease fires, freak snow storms (yes in TX) police and fire department showing up and saying we have to move location, all kinds of stuff.

[jroller]

It's pretty easy math for me, and I sometimes do VERY large cooks. Plan on 1lb raw untrimmed packer brisket per person if you want some left over, 3/4 lb if not. Start the fire 24 hours before service and have a way to hold.

Question: in your experience, does it take roughly the same amount of time to cook multiple briskets as it does to cook one? I realized that people may put in large numbers and be shown that they need say 50 lbs of brisket, so the planner needs to account for multiple brisket cooks. Do you find the added mass causes them to cook more slowly individually?

[bbq_esq]

Depends on the cooker I suppose, if you put two briskets on say, a Pit Barrel Cooker, yeah it's gonna take longer and you won't get the same bark in my experience. If you were cooking on a big offset stick burner, eh, might not matter.

[texastweeter]

Mainly depends on airflow. With a lower flowing pit, say my pittmaker.com BBQ Vault, when you pack in 15-20 brisket, the humidity goes significantly up. The higher humidity affects both bark formation but shortens the stall so it actually cooks faster. On my Magnum Sniper, it's very high flow so not much at all.

[jroller]

Thanks, gents. I'll add a note to the output about these variables. That said, I don't think this is a tool for someone with the confidence and experience to tackle 20 briskets. Clearly, this is only something a novice would feel they need to lean on. I'd just like to provide the best direction possible for these folks.