I feel like we are the team trying to get Apollo 13 back to earth on this thread. My 2 cents - that long of a hold and your finished product is going to taste like it came out of a can. That said, only those with discerning palettes will know once you drown it in bbq sauce.
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Hey again everyone,
I did a thorough oven cleaning. Since then, I’ve tested it on 3 different occasions, for an hour or two. It’s staying within 10 degrees of the set temp.
What a relief!
No need to buy an electric roaster, an electric catering warmer, or mess with vacuum packing & Sous Vide…. Yet. So glad!!!!
I’m gonna try to time it like this.
Put in preheated smoker (cold straight from fridge ) at 1:00pm Sat at 225 for 3 hours for smoke,
At 4:00 up to 250 for 3 hours to render fat and firm bark.
At 7:00, pull from smoke, foil boat and into 275 oven to render more fat and crisp bark. Bake till bark is crisp and well past stall, e.g. 180 internal.
I’m assuming it’ll be somewhere between 9 and 10pm when it reaches 190-195 internal.
I’ll pull from oven & rest on counter in foil boat to cool down to 160 internal. Meanwhile, I’ll cool oven down to 150.
At that point I’ll wrap over top of in foil boat w/ smoked Wagyu tallow. I’m guessing this will be between 10 & 11 pm. I’ll put in 150 degree oven. I’ll hold till 1:00 (14 - 16 hours into hold). Pull, test and slice at 2:00
Sound like a sound plan?
Suggestions?
JD
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I think your plan sounds good. Some variables:
For me, I'd start earlier than 1PM - hell, start in the morning, keep it in the smoker throughout the whole cook until you wrap. The foil boat method allows for the bark to crisp ideally.
I've only had ONE brisket come out overcooked using the foil boat/long hold method - and that was only on the bottom, and it was one I was pushing temps trying to get finished. So I think the liquid in the foil boat boiled/braised the meat too much and it got crumbly.
The bark will soften considerably, so I wouldn't worry TOO awful much about truly 'crisping up' the bark. You want it good and set so it doesn't just rub off when it gets soft, but it's not gonna remain crispy, or really have any texture at all. It's gonna be there for flavor and color/appearance. Similarly, don't go too heavy on the rub/seasonings, because they will get soggy and mushy with this method and they will both rub off when slicing AND be unappetizing mush on the outside of your brisket.
Not sure which one this is, but this is some pics of a 'long hold' one I did - I think about 15 hours.
I've done a hold as long as 20 hours. I don't usually let mine cool down to 150 before putting it in the holding oven. I usually wrap it, transport it home (I often cook these out at my buddy's shop where the big smoker is) and put it in the oven, so it may have cooled 10 degrees or so, but not all the way down. If I were doing that - cooling immediately to 150, I would take it to 195, then wrap and allow it to SLOW cool. Not leaving it open on the counter to cool, that is. I'm not sure there's a lot of benefit in the dropping temp to 150 before placing in the warming oven, though. Maybe to 180 or so, but not all the way down. You do want it to spend a good amount of time above the 170-180 mark (several hours in total) to render that collagen into glycerin, etc. So don't look at it as trying to bounce up to 195 and immediately cool it back down and hold it at 150 - I'd go up to 195 and allow to cool slowly down to 150ish. Now, maybe don't wrap directly at 195 because you're going to get some carryover - I might do 190 if I'm wrapping immediately, or go to 195, then hold open on the counter in the foil boat until it comes down to 180-185 before the final whole wrap.
I'm not an expert, and I've experienced a number of frustrations with brisket cooks - you can see me bitching about them here pretty regularly. lol. BUT, I will say, since I've started the foil boat/wrap/long hold method, I've been extremely happy with every single one I've done - with the exception of the one I mentioned above, because I pushed them temps and overcooked it on the bottom (inside the foil boat in the pooled liquid) BEFORE wrapping and holding.
Big concern about this method - your foil boat has gotta be good and solid, meaning no leaks. Use LARGE foil. Trying to overlap sheets is likely to cause you problems, and your juices are going to leak out. Similarly, when you pull it in the boat and wrap over it, you gotta figure out a way to keep those juices inside. Both to help keep things moist in your wrap, but also to keep from leaking this shite all over the inside of whatever you're using as a holding oven, etc.! Honestly, making the foil boat, keeping it intact and solid, and wrapping without spilling my accumulated juice everywhere is about the biggest challenge in this method, for me. I need to go watch some more videos on how to make the perfect foil boat - I've got another briskie in the fridge I need to cook!
I think a hold from 12-20 hours isn't too bad. Getting beyond that, I dunno. But I have done as much as 20.
If you need to go longer, another method I've used is wrapping, letting it cool slowly, then just refrigerating it as-is (in the boat and overwrap), then throwing it in the oven at 325 for a couple hours to reheat. This works.
Hadn't thought of it before, but now I'm thinking... what if I did that, removed the OUTER wrap, placed it back in the oven in the foil boat and tried to crisp up the bark again??? I dunno... that's an idea I might have to try.... I think you really need a temp probe with this method, to avoid overcooking, and if you get it up too high, you'll definitely end up crumbly. But maybe if you can rewarm it gently for a couple hours, then turn it up to crsip the bark....
Hell, I dunno, I'm just rambling now.
Maybe I just need to try this next one in my Super 55... that might be a good 'inaugural cook'.Comment
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Hello,Originally posted by IdahoJim View Post
Im not super thrilled at the temp swings of my electric oven. I’m looking to buy an electric roaster.
24 qt is the largest I can find. Is this large enough to hold a wrapped 19lb brisket?
Is there a roaster that you’d recommend?
JDComment
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What turkey roaster do you have? I wonder what size it needs to be. Any suggestions?Originally posted by IdahoJim View Post
would 24 qt fit a brisket that was 20 before trim & cook?
JDComment
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I just ordered a 26qt electric counter top turkey roaster.
I’m still going to check the temp w/ digital thermometer.
Also, have a service person coming to look at my oven. Today, while set at 155 warm, the temp swung from 177 down to 129 and back. To me that’s pretty bad, and not dependable enough to trust going to sleep w/ a prime packer in it.
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That is about right for most ovens from what I've seen. 20-30ºF +/- temp swings or more. Decent pellet smokers have the same thing.Originally posted by jjdbike View PostComment
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You are of course correct. We had an oven repair person look it ours today. He said that this technology is not designed or able to hold a solid steady temp.Originally posted by DogFaced PonySoldier View Post
I have to wonder if countertop electric turkey roasters hold steady dependably?
I’ll test it when I receive it.
Best regards!
JD
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I have a vintage Westinghouse roaster oven that was handed down to me by my mother who got it from my grandmother. And I did some testing as to how well it held warming temps , 140 to 150. Here's the Thermoworks graph with a heat sink. I first ran it empty and then I put a half pan of water to simulate a hunk of meat. I got much tighter temp swings with heat sink.
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Thanks bud,Originally posted by DogFaced PonySoldier View Post
We had an oven repair person come. He echoed what others have said. The technology of these ovens aren't capable of maintaining steady temps, especially on the low end, which is certainly very much true for ours. The high end wasn't much better. The it dinged that it was at temp at 425, it was only 360. He did replace the temp sensor. Hopefully that helps. I will test it at some point.
Thanks everyone!
JD
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jjdbike - Thermal mass, such as a cast iron skillet or a pizza stone in the bottom of the oven will help with swings.Last edited by Smoker_Boy; May 22, 2024, 04:30 PM.Comment
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That would totally depend on the pellet smoker / controller.Originally posted by DogFaced PonySoldier View Post
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PID controllers do help tremendously with this, of course. Still got temp variances though, and they can run 30, 40, 50 degrees. That's been my experience with the three I have experience with - Traeger, Reqteq and Yoder, the latter two of which have PIDs, but still have pretty significant temp swings. The Traeger graph looked very much like the one Lynn Dollar posted above of the roaster. -
@DogFacedPonySoldier - The stock controller on my Z Grills typically had about 20 deg total swings, or +/- 10 degrees if you want to look at it that way.
I bought a new Smoke Daddy controller last week and the swings are less than 5 degrees total now.
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Interesting.Originally posted by Smoker_Boy View Post
i wonder to what degree.
I have several large cas iron items. I also have a large thick carbon steel “backing steel”. It weighs about 35 lbs. it soaks up a lot of heat and is highly radiant.
JD
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The oven will take longer to reach temperature and longer to cool off.Originally posted by jjdbike View Post
But the swings should be way smaller.
You can speed up heating the mass by over-shooting the setpoint, and then dial it back when your mass gets close.
Give it try.
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