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Chuxperiment II: Pellet smoker vs. SnS kettle

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    Chuxperiment II: Pellet smoker vs. SnS kettle

    Howdy folks,

    In my biggest disappointment of my nascent smoking career, I did a pair of chuck roasts in the Pit Boss vertical pellet smoker as an experiment, and they both came out absolutely awful. Dry, stringy, tough, despite all nominal performance until serving time.

    Trying another version, this time to compare between the PB and my recently acquired SnS kettle. This will be my second comparison experiment between these two cookers, after the pork butt halves I did recently. I'm using a pair of "Mishima Reserve" American wagyu chucks I got from CrowdCow. Amazingly, they are exactly the same weight at 2.38lb/1.08kg, but have very different shapes.

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    As you can see, they're dry brined, and tomorrow I'll hit them with Hank's Bona Fide Beef Rub, using the recipes that Henrik so generously shared with the Pit not long ago. (Didn't even know there was such a thing as shiitake powder, but found some on Amazon that will arrive today.) I'll be making mine salt-free, of course, since I've already brined 'em.

    In the post-game analysis comments on my pork butt comparison thread, glitchy very cogently pointed out that a better comparison than slavishly adhering to identical temperature profiles is to use each cooker in its respective wheelhouse. For a vertical p-smoker like my Pit Boss, that means using the low-T "smoke" setting for an hour or so before bumping up to the primary target T. I didn't do that on the butt-off, even though that is my SOP except for that one experiment, so it wasn't a fair fight.

    That target will be 250F/121C, and I'll be running the PB using 100% hickory pellets from Cookin' Pellets, and the SnS kettle with B&B charcoal and three hickory chunks. Will have a dozen coals lit in the corner of the SnS insert, then add unlit to the remaining space, and place the three chunks to be consumed as the coals burn from one end to the other. I'll put the skinny one on the kettle and the more equant one on the PB - will make it easier for most of the meat to stay as far from the fire as possible in the kettle.

    Recap of my first chuck-off: with everything so dry, there were lots of comments about wrapping; but my admittedly small (n=4) prior experience, they'd always been perfect with no wrapping. What I did do differently was a much longer rest than I'd done before. So those are variables I may explore here.

    I have done one chuck since then, and used the foil boat method for the first time on it. It was absolutely amazing! Now, granted, it was a Click Akaushi chuck, but I watched as, over time, the bottom of the boat filled up with juice, then during the rest it all went right back in the meat, because that foil was damn near dry when I served, and the meat was spectacular. So I am very likely to do that on these as well.

    This will also be the inaugural use of my new Fireboard 2. I don't think the cables will stretch to run everything on the FB, so I'll likely use it on the PB and use the Meater+ for the kettle piece.

    Come on by during the day tomorrow for updates, and wish me luck!

    #2
    They'll both be delicious, and tastewise they'll be twins! Twins like Danny Devito and Arnold Schwarzenegger.

    Comment


      #3
      This is great. Talk about timing. I just picked up a twin pack of Charles (yes I’m that dork) roasts. I’m definitely using one for chili. Not sure if I want to freeze the other one or toss it on one of the toys Aso not sure which smoker to use this weekend. But I’ll be eyeing this post.

      Comment


        #4
        Good morning Pitmaestros and -maestras, Chuxperiment II is underway. Got the kettle fired up and the pellet smoker on SMOKE a bit after 7 and the pieces were in the cookers by 8:15. Doused them generously with Hank's Bona Fide about half an hour before going on.

        I'm using the Meater+ for the kettle piece and two wired probes with the new Fireboard 2 for the PB piece. As usual, the estimated remaining time from the Meater app is a great measure of the approaching stall, because it keeps climbing up and up. Eventually it will actually become meaningful as an ETA, but not until much later in the process.

        And they're off!
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        After a little over an hour. I rotated the piece on the kettle after I took this, will do that every so often so one side doesn't stay nearer the fuel the whole time... kettle piece IT = 115F/46C, PB piece = 112F/44C, Meater ETA = 1:56.
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        Profile thus far in the kettle:
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        And just in the time since I took these and wrote this post, the Meater ETA has climbed to 3:38 as of 12 minutes ago, and just now 4:35 - there's a stall a-comin'!

        For some reason, the FB app ended my session and immediately began another one, I have no idea why. So here's the profile from the SMOKE step, and you can see where I upped the set point to 250F/121C before it switches over to the new one.

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        All nominal so far...

        Comment


          #5
          Looking forward to the final results. Looks good so far

          Comment


            #6
            Checking in, everything still nominal AF.

            Here we are at about 2.5 and 4 hours in. Stallsville has been achieved, both pieces parked around 155F/68C.

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            And I realized I totally forgot to line the bottom grate with foil... d'oh! It'll be going in a foil boat before a heck of a lot longer though.

            Temp profiles thus far, PB on the FB and kettle on the Meater+.

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            Keeeeeeep going....

            Comment


            • WayneT
              WayneT commented
              Editing a comment
              You weren’t kidding when you said your Copperhead holds temp well. Judging by those graphs, it is very consistent. Still thinking about ordering one myself.

            #7
            Looking good!

            However, I don't think you need to rotate the roast on the kettle at all - especially with it to the far side of the grill like that. Every time you take the lid off, you probably add a couple minutes to the cook. I've never found that to be necessary, and I've crammed stuff like an 18 pound brisket or two 8-10 pound butts on the indirect side of the kettle before. I just try to center things in the indirect area as much as I can.

            Just my 2 cents.

            Comment


            • Panhead John
              Panhead John commented
              Editing a comment
              +1

            • DaveD
              DaveD commented
              Editing a comment
              Fair point Jim. I know I probably fiddle too much, but at this still-early stage, I'm in data-sponge mode. I fully expect that after I gain more familiarity I won't need/want to do that as much.

            #8
            Deployed the foil boats as the temps started to creep up out of the stalls. Both pieces had an initial temp drop, but then the pellet smoker one started rising smartly whereas the kettle piece stalled again, took two hours to get back to the temp it was at when I boated it. I think I may not have had quite enough coals in there to start, because it seems like things are gradually cooling off, despite periodic vent adjustments to try to compensate. Finally added another dozen or so coals and that got things back where they needed to be. So the kettle piece is a good 20+ degrees behind. Obviously still have plenty to learn in controlling temp on the kettle...

            Boats aweigh!
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            About an hour later, dig all the juice in the PB piece's boat:
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            Not as much in the kettle piece:
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            With the kettle piece still languishing below 170F/77C, decided to close up its boat and make it more of a regular wrap to speed things up. The piece has some great looking bark and isn't likely to get a lot more benefit from additional smoke.
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            Latest profiles:
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            The kettle piece is up to 174F/79C just since I started this post. Finally!

            Comment


            • Panhead John
              Panhead John commented
              Editing a comment
              Just an FYI, but whenever using the SnS for a low and slow, you should always fill the SnS insert with coals. I noticed in your pics there was not nearly as many coals as should be used. Filling it up in the beginning will let you do the entire cook without having to stop and add more. Just my 2 cents.

            #9
            I’ll second PJ here. Always fill the SNS with coals. I don’t ever start a cool with less than a full SNS, whether doing hot and fast or low and slow.

            also… you have way too many openings of the kettle on that bottom graph. That’s slowed you down too.

            Comment


              #10
              I'll second Jim here. Stop touching' it, Also when you have the food off to wrap is a good time to knock the ash out of the SnS and sweep the bowl to make sure you're not choking the airflow through the fire.

              Comment


                #11
                I'll bet most of this is down to not enough coals up front. When I did a rack o'ribs a few weeks ago, I did have it completely full and did not have to do a dang thing to it all day, it was rock solid. Lesson learned

                The PB piece hit 202F/94C probing super tender, so it went into the cambro in a pyrex dish, covered with foil, then sleeping bag piled in. Kettle piece chugging along, but again my fire is starting to fade, so I punted and got the kitchen oven up to 300F/149C, and put it in there (also in pyrex dish). Still not probing tender, so we'll let 'er ride.
                Last edited by DaveD; October 8, 2022, 03:43 PM.

                Comment


                  #12
                  Time for deliverables! Bottom line up front: Both of these chucks were spectacular. We could tell which was which, but it really was a tossup on which was "better". My lovely bride preferred the pellet-smoked piece.

                  Here's the PB piece in its boat, awash in juicy goodness, shortly before I pulled it to rest.
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                  Kettle piece ready to slice.
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                  I cut up a couple of slices and pulled a hunk of each so that we had some of each. Here's the kettle piece:
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                  And the p-smoker piece:
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                  Kettle piece on the left, PB piece on the right.
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                  Plated:
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                  Closeup on p-smoker piece:
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                  Same on kettle piece:
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                  Both of these were just so good. We could definitely notice the wood smoke in the kettle piece, and it was juicy and tender, but the p-smoker piece was juicier, tenderer, and its smoke profile was absolutely legit, no slouch whatsoever.

                  This was the first time I've used the Cookin' Pellets 100% Hickory. I've used their blends, which they claim (and I don't doubt them) are all hardwoods rather than the 3/4 oak or alder and the rest the "flavor" wood. I will readily admit that I really can't tell the difference between one blend and another - but these were actually noticeable. More data are needed

                  [Edit:] And I would be remiss not to mention that Henrik 's Hank's Bona Fide beef rub lives up to its name. Absolutely delicious!

                  Food coma time...
                  Last edited by DaveD; October 8, 2022, 06:44 PM.

                  Comment


                  • WayneT
                    WayneT commented
                    Editing a comment
                    That’s one well documented experiment Dave. There’s a lot of good info in your posts as well as the commenters’ posts. Now I want have to work nearly as hard when I cook a Chuck on either my pellet pooper or SNS. Bravo!

                    More importantly, I’m glad your cooks went well and you and your wife enjoyed the meal. No surprise there.

                  #13
                  And I forgot to say, glitchy's point was strongly supported here -- doing the SMOKE step on the pellet smoker definitely allowed it to put its best foot forward, so to speak. Will include in any comparison for sure.

                  Comment


                    #14
                    Great wright up and pictures.

                    Comment

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