Yoder Smokers

[Oakgrovebacon]

Welcome to the pit from Southern Illinois. You will enjoy the stickburner. Very satisfying to cook on.

[Spinaker]

Make sure that you let us know what you think. We would love to see some pictures of that beauty.

[Ghawtho]

I am having trouble creating a dark bark on brisket and baby back ribs. Someone please give me advice why am having problems with creating bark. June 18 2023 smoked baby back ribs using Texas Post Oak temperatures 250 - 280 degrees for 6-1/2 hours. Attached picture of my results. As far as smoking brisket bark isn’t forming at all using temperatures 225 -275 for 10 hours and bark formation is zero. The yellow color is the mustard applied for a rub binder. Rub on the ribs was John Henry’s pecan rub. The pecan rub is a demanded request by my wife. She doesn’t like the other rubs cause she doesn’t like the spicy rubs.

[Huskee]

You shouldn't see any mustard after you cook your ribs for 6.5 hours at 250-280. Perhaps you're using too much mustard and therefore have too wet a surface. Try skipping the mustard, you don't need it. Put your rub on a tacky, moist surface and call it good. Also, what are you using to verify your cook temps are what you say, do you have digital probes at grate level or are you using the dial thermometers on the lid?

[Ghawtho]

Huskee
I am using the Fireboard ambient probes at grill
level using the grill clips. I am being careful to keep meat a minimum of 1-1/2” to 2” from the probe to prevent a cold zone from the meat.
I start spraying my back back ribs with apple juice at 3 hours and spray every 45 to 60 minutes.

[Huskee]

If you don't like the bark then I suggest you take steps to cut out the moisture preventing the bark. Skip the mustard and skip the spray. Don't wrap them either.

[ecowper]

Oh … that’s good to know …. Why are you spraying the ribs with apple juice that late in the cook? Bark formation takes time when cooking low and slow. No moisture added at 3 hours is going to help, only hurt.

[jfmorris]

THIS is the key! You are washing off all your bark with all that spritzing!

[Ghawtho]

Huskee
I am somewhat okay with the brown skin on the rib picture above cause the wife doesn’t like a DARK bark. On the other hand am wanting the black crispy bark on my brisket. I can’t get that on my brisket. My wife doesn’t like brisket no matter how it’s cooked so therefore bark is my choice. I haven’t been able to create a dark bark on brisket. Hopefully am preventing that with the mustard and spaying my brisket. I will try skipping both on my next cook. Thank you.

[Huskee]

I think we covered the brisket bark in your post about that a while ago. You mentioned you were boating it with foil...or foil and paper? Skip that. If you want to wrap, try butcher paper only, and wait until AFTER the stall, at 170-180 before wrapping. Don't wrap at 150-160, and don't use foil.

[ecowper]

I never wrap ribs. I let them run nekkid beginning to end

[ecowper]

Ghawtho I don’t cook on a stick burner. But on this front (bark) I don’t think that matters. Here’s a couple things I picked up on in what you’re talking about.

The first one is that you are using mustard as part of your rub/binder. I never use anything but water to get my rub to adhere to the meat surface. A long time ago, I used oil and left me with a bit lighter bark and no appreciable difference in flavor or rub. I think, as Huskee points out, that you have too much liquid/mustard going on. Just like you can’t get crispy chicken skin if the skin is always wet, you can’t get good bark if the meat surface is too wet.

The other thing is I’m curious what your rubs are? Generally speaking, you need to denature the protein with some salt OR you need some sugar on the meat surface. Or both.

Finally, I can tell you that I never spritz when I’m cooking. I get a little bit of moisture in the cook chamber from a water pan, but no spritz. If you are going to spritz, then no water pan. Moisture destroys bark.

[Ghawtho]

@ecowper
I am using John Henry’s pecan rub on the ribs only. I won’t use the pecan rub on brisket. My wife wants the pecan rub on ribs.
I purchased the 1836 rub couple weeks ago but haven’t cooked with it yet.

[ecowper]

Next question, how much rub are you putting on those ribs? I tend to put about 3 TBSP on each rack of ribs.

[FireMan]

I’m with Huskee & ecowper. Although, I once in awhile might use mustard, but just from sight you used way to much. Even the water ecowper is talkin about is sparingly not drenching the Wibs. I don’t spritz either. Cook em at 275 + - .
The ingredients of the rub seem ok. Again by the looks of things, you went easy on the rub. Don’t be afraid to almost coat em.

[ecowper]

Correct … I lightly wet the surface of the meat. Just enough so the rub binds, not to the point where it is wet and runny.

[Ghawtho]

ecowper
Im only using about 1-1/2 TBSP mainly cause am on a low sodium diet cause if high blood pressure. I’m using the commercial rubs which are more on the salty side.

[ecowper]

If you are on a low sodium diet I would strongly recommend moving to home made rubs where you can control the amount of salt yourself. I mostly always make my own rubs, I put no salt in them at all. I dry brine using salt to an amount that I control and then apply the rub right before putting the meat on the smoker.

I just wrote a guide to “Great Bark” …. Take a look

https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/forum/the-pit-mastery-program/misc-or-general-food-discusison/1440183-how-to-achieve-great-ba

[Murdy]

I do approximately the same thing, except that because I am quite lazy, the night before when I'm salting for the dry brine, I go ahead and apply the salt-less rub right after I salt, mostly just because I have the meat out, and then I don't have to mess around with it again in the morning. I haven't noticed a difference. Also, I just blot the meat a bit with a paper towel, and the residual meat juice acts as a bit of a binder since I haven't let it dry out overnight--again, lazy.

[Rob whatever]

Are you cooking with vents all the way open or partially closed?

rob

[fkrall]

See ecowper's post today "How To Achieve Great Barq" and your prayers will be answered

[captainlee]

Yoder smoker here, i get great results. No wrap, no spritz. The first time that i open the chamber is about 4 1/2 hours into the cook for ribs. As Myron has said, mustard if for hot dogs. Keep on trying , you'll figure it out.

[jfmorris]

Ghawtho I think we are seeing several things here.

First - as others have said - STOP with the spritzing. It rinses off and ruins bark if you do too much of it. I know you see it on all the BBQ shows. Ignore them.

Second - it sure doesn't appear that you used much rub. As others have said - you need a good 2-3 TABLESPOONS of rub per slab of ribs. It should be heavily coated, and that helps with bark formation. Don't use the mustard either - if the ribs are not moist enough to hold the rub, I just wet my hand in the sink and rub some water on the ribs - just enough to dampen the surface.

Third - don't wrap the ribs. Not sure you are, but if you are, don't.

Here are some ideas of what ribs should look like on a stick burner like your offset. This is my offset, for a cook last summer.

I started with a chimney of charcoal in the firebox, then added small splits of post oak (B&B brand) as needed during the cook:



This is what the St. Louis style ribs looked like when first hitting the smoker, for what was likely a 5 hour cook at 250 to 275. The color at this point is from the rub, which was probably Meathead's Memphis Dust (MMD):



This is several hours into the cook, with some beans and Mac-n-cheese added - I take advantage of the hot spots next to the firebox for the beans and such.



Here, at the end of the cook, passing the bend test - 5 hours after laying them on the cooking grate:



One thing to notice is that OUTSIDE, under natural light, the bark on this slab of ribs has a reddish tint to it:



However, INSIDE, under different lighting, the bark appears almost black. I was happy with the smoke ring on these too:



The keys is - while I did move the ribs a couple of times on the grate, I didn't do anything else to them. They were not spritzed, they were not wrapped. They had a nice heavy coat of rub and the smoker did its thing for 5 hours or so. I fed the fire a small split of post oak every 30 minutes or so, and that was about it. I opened the firebox door as needed to regulate temperature to stay in the 225 to 275 range.

[Ghawtho]

@jfmorris
I’ll probably need to ditch the commercial rubs cause using 2 or 3 TBSP on a rack of back back ribs would have the ribs as salty
as a bag of sunflower seeds using commercial rubs. I used about 1/3 cup of commercial rub on my last 14 pound brisket but it was WAY WAY salty about twice as salty as a bag of show popcorn. I bet the sodium was at 5,000mg on the brisket which made it difficult to eat.

[jfmorris]

Ghawtho yes you cannot use much of the commercial rubs. Last one I used to use for pork ribs was called "Bad Byron's Butt Rub", and it was basically like using seasoned salt. There are some commercial rubs that are not so salty, but you are best served salting the meat, preferably 4 hours or overnight before the cook, then putting a salt free or low salt rub on right before hitting the smoker.

But yes - using very little rub is probably the biggest issue with no bark on your meat.

[jfmorris]

Ghawtho it now seems maybe your issue is just not using enough rub, due to the use of commercial rubs that are too high in salt. I would look a couple of ways here:

1. Make your own rub, without salt, salting in advance (dry brining) before cooking. We have plenty of recipes on the free side of Amazing Ribs. I like the Big Bad Beef Rub and Mrs. O'Leary's Cow Crust for beef, and Meathead's Memphis Dust for pork. You can also go simple with salt (in advance), pepper and garlic powder, things like that.

2. Use a good rub that is not OVERLY salty, such as the one's Meathead makes, and use it for dry brining. 1-2 TBSP per slab of ribs shouldn't be too much using his. Just sprinkle on out of the shaker bottle and give the meat a heavy coat on each side, and let it dry brine overnight, and don't apply anymore at smoking time.

3. Buy some salt free or low salt rubs. There are some out there. Here are are few:

- Kinder's No Salt Seasoning BBQ Blend (available at Walmart)
- Killer Hog's The BBQ Rub (salt is the 4th ingredient in the list!)
- Meat Church The Gospel BBQ rub (salt is the 2nd ingredient, after sugar)

I saw a few other salt free rubs on Amazon, but not ones I had heard of.

I highly recommend trying some of the rub recipes on the free side first, which are all salt free, then branching out from there.

[STEbbq]

Dizzy Pig has a no salt rub too.

https://dizzypigbbq.com/product/salt-free-dizzy-dust/

But I third (or fourth?) the suggestion to just make your own with no salt and use Meathead’s recipes on the free side. It takes five minutes to make!

[Purc]

Don't forget that Heaven Made Products makes a number of low salt seasonings, and they offer Pitmaster Club members 10% off and they are a monthly giveaway sponsor.

[STEbbq]

Good recommendation!

[Ghawtho]

Oops, I purchased these two recently and don’t want to waste them. Rudy’s 1/4 tsp=85mg sodium. 1836 1/4tsp=160mg sodium. If using 1/3 cup rub there is 64 1/4tsp in 1/3 cup.
Sodium using 1/3 cup Rudy’s = 5,440mg sodium. 1836 rub using 1/3 cup = 10,240mg sodium. It looks as though the Rudy’s Rub would be safer to use if 1/3 cup was applied to a brisket.
Keep in mind these both were purchased about 10 days ago and really don’t want to toss them out.
Thoughts please.

[jfmorris]

If salt is the first ingredient in the rub, you almost have to use sparingly, or cut it with another homemade salt free rub.

When we dry brine by Meathead's rules, it is 1/2 teaspoon course kosher salt per pound. Morton course kosher salt has 960mg per 1/2 teaspoon. So that is 960mg per pound, or 240mg per 4 ounce serving of meat, which seems reasonable. Most store bought turkeys contain 200 to 400mg sodium per 4 ounce serving from the packing process.

[jfmorris]

Con't

So... that 1/3 cup of Rudy's has enough salt for 22.6 *POUNDS* of meat. The 1836 rub has TWICE THAT! 1/3 cup is about 5 tablespoons. No way you could ever use 2 tablespoons of that on a slab of ribs without it being salty beyond believe.

I can't see using much of those rubs if you dry brine your meat either. Now, that said, the rub has the salt mixed in, so not all the salt touches and penetrates the meat, but it is still sitting there on the surface...

Sure they are worth saving?

[jfmorris]

Con't 2:

If you *WANT* bark I would forget you have these rubs for a bit, and try your next smoke without them.... you won't have bark with just a couple teaspoons of this stuff on the surface.