Agree with your logic. Not to modify the original question but would you entertain the idea of having two units? I.e. keep the WSM and get an engelbrecht or keep the HB and get a Shirley or m1?
I didn’t look closely at the LSG/AZ because weight made them non-starters. I think the engelbrecht would add a compelling and unique twist to grilling but I have my doubts as to how it would be as a smoker (certainly for a set and forget type smoker).
i think the Engelbrecht + WSM gets you pretty darn close.:
santa maria grill with wood or charcoal
actively managed wood burning offset smoker
less actively managed charcoal smoker
the only downsides vs a single cooker in that price range i can think of are
likely less grilling or smoking area
if there's some deficiency the engelbrecht has as a charcoal grill vs. say your HB
ecowper Boy, did you ever ask the wrong guy for advice. After a year of using the LSG Adjustable Grill & Smoker, I love it more than ever.
Since I wasn't familiar with the other cookers you mentioned, I looked at some of their YouTube videos. What really stood out to me was how much more difficult they were to set up and cook on than the LSG Adjustable, especially the AZ BBQ Outfitters pits, and a little less so for the Engelbrecht Braten 1000. Also neither of those has a removable ash pan which I consider to be an absolute requirement. I did not look at Kalamazoo’s videos because I about fainted when I saw their prices.
Didn't expect to be, but I was impressed with the Hasty-Bake 357 Pro. It's easy to use, has a water pan and heat deflectors, neither of which are available on the LSG Adjustable. I wasn't particularly impressed with the grease drain though.
For water, I use a full loaf pan placed on the upper grill over the hot side, and the only reason one would need a heat deflector would be if you were smoking so much food that you needed to use the total available cooking space. I think because the LSG has two completely separate fire boxes, it makes for a better 2-zone/offset cooker, and if you were to be grilling for a large crowd, you could cook at two different temperatures if that's what you needed to do. I use a full size aluminum pan covered in foil on the cool side to catch fat drippings. On the hot side, the grease just burns up in the charcoal grate and never even makes into the ash pan. I just don't have a problem with grease in the pit.
The thing about the LSG Adjustable is that it's very straightforward to use. As you know, I cook on it practically every night. It takes me 8 minutes to knock the ash off the lump charcoal from the previous night's cook, put in about half a chimney of new coal, empty the ash pan if necessary, get the Fireboard set up, and start the fire using one Lightning Nugget and a propane torch. The only tuning to do is to regulate the intake and outflow dampers and then wait for the pit temp to come up. When finished cooking, just shut the dampers and go eat. It's very simple and very reliable.
Where the Hasty-Bake would make a big difference is if you wanted to build in the cooker at a later date. It's hood seems to just raise straight up. The lid on the LSG Adjustable would require just under 14" of space behind the cooker.
I'm sure glad I'm not where you are, trying to decide which cooker you want. It can drive you crazy. Wish you luck and am eager to hear what you finally decide on. If you do decide on an LSG, heed CaptainMike 's advice and don't delay ordering. These pits take a long time to make.
The LSG absolutely has Santa Maria Grill capability. Instead of moving the cooking surface up and down, the charcoal grates in each firepit can be set to 8 different levels from 14" to about 2" below the cooking grate, just by lifting their respective cool-touch handles and setting them in the chosen slot. For me, there were just way too many futzy adjustments that had to be made on the AZ BBQ stuff just to cook on it.
Last edited by AZ Fogey; February 26, 2021, 04:51 PM.
Not sure whether this will appeal to you or not, but I find it handy. The LSG Adjustable has 4 different cook zone temps. Hot side cooking grate and upper rack, and cold side cooking grate and upper rack. The upper rack runs about 50° hotter than the lower grates. However, the temp on the lower grate cool side is pretty consistent.
Yeah, that’s how the Hasty-Bakes achieve Santa Maria style cooking. Adjust the firebox up and down. I get how that works and can see how it works on the LSG also.
AZ: agree with AZ Fogey. i don't love the idea of the floating baffle plate and that you have to wedge the plate to the right otherwise, the smoke can just go straight up from the firebox and right out the exhaust. You also need to decide for yourself how cumbersome it would be to have to remove the rather large charcoal grate if you're smoking (and vice versa). There's a grease drain but it wasn't clear to me how it is catching grease and otherwise i think grease cleanup could be a PITA. It does look like there is an ash catcher if you are using it as a grill. For all the hassle of converting from smoker to grill, it doesn't strike me to do either amazingly.
LSB: not sure if it is even in the running given the delay. But I think i like this option the best. somewhat vertical charcoal box like your HB. Personally i really like the idea of being able to use the same heatsource for smoking and grilling (something you don't get in an M-1 or the AZ) i.e. if you want to smoke and just do a sear at the end. You lose half the area running it as a smoker so i don't think you should view it as being too wide (the absence of an offset firebox i'm guessing helps bring the dimensions somewhat more in line with the peers.
Engelbrecht: This seems to be the best option for grilling. My concern would be how it would function as a smoker. Smallest smoke area (on top of the dimensions i think their FAQ says that there is a hot spot 10 inches from the box). .If you'd rather not have to actively manage the fire, i wonder how precise the air vent is and thus how easy it would be using a bunch of charcoal for a hands-off long cook. Small firebox + (relatively) smaller cook chamber just seems to suggest a lack of wiggle room. If you were open to keeping the WSM then i'd be more open but if you're expecting it to be your primary smoker i'd try to find some firsthand feedback.
If it were me and LSG was out, I’d get engelbrecht and keep the WSM as a backup. If the Engelbrecht can smoke well can always get rid of the WSM later. But This presupposes:
I) you’re fine with the downside scenario of having two units
Ii) you like the engelbrecht as a grill enough such that you won’t regret getting it if it isnt optimal for all smoking scenarios.
Forgot to add thoughts on the m-1 which should be considered. Seems pretty similar to your 256. Struck me as a better smoker than grill. Vs the hasty can burn wood splits, shouldn’t be air leak issues and probably less left vs right temp variance if you’re using the entire grate for smoking. As a grill, no ability to access the charcoal except removing the cooking grate (which bothers me though it’s rare that I’ve ever needed it—your experience with the hb should suggest how important that is to you). Also if you wanted to combo smoke and sear you’d need to start a separate fire in the grill area (which would require lifting the cooking grate). A bit on the smaller side and maybe too similar to your 256?
I have no hands on myself, so take this for what you wish. I just saw a thread on another forum yesterday someone ordered just received their AZ cooker and was very disappointed. Partially because the cooking space was smaller than they expected but also because of the attention to detail. He claimed there were burrs left all over it and he was going to have to take a dremel or die grinder and deburr and repaint it. This was a different model, an interestingly shaped santa maria style with a ton of fire bricks on it.
Okay, so you've gotten a lot of good commentary and a few distractions. It sounds like you will have the equipment exposed to the elements until sometime later when you can erect an enclosure of some kind. Having lived up there I realize that rain isn't as onerous as most outside the area believe, but it is a consideration none the less. So let me toss another option for your thought process. The Cajun Grill Preaux. Cajun Preaux Complete (Cart included) - The Cajun Grill
As Michael, AZ Fogey, and I have discussed on a couple of his threads on his LSG it operates in many of the same ways as his with some differences. It's not quite the tank that the LSG is for weight, and lacks the center divider wall at the fire level, but otherwise flows air similarly and has two adjustable height fire pans. The key difference is the Preaux is made entirely of reasonably heavy gauge 304 stainless...............you'll likely never have rust issues on any part of it. The fabrication quality is very good, also US made. Considering the shipping it may actually be slightly less costly delivered than the other choices. I bought it with the cart which is a significant part of the total cost and if someone had an eventual goal of using it more as a built in eventually it might be worthwhile to buy it without their cart and find an industrial alternative for less money for the short run. I bought mine a little over a year ago from BBQ Island in Az. and they discounted it 20%. It was a drop ship from Louisiana (the manufacturer) so I had it in about a week from their inventory.
You've got so many good choices here, so I'm not going to say the Preaux is best for you, but given what you've been looking at it is worth a look and consideration.
That is a formidable list to choose from but I hate for you to have to make such a hard decision when you also have so much more to do. I think the best way to handle this is for you to go ahead and order each one and have them shipped to my place where I'll do a detailed report on each one: quality of build, ease of assembly (if needed), ease of getting the fire going, maintaining consistent temperatures both low and hot, frequency of adding fuel, quality of the cooks - low and slow and fast and hot, etc. I'll present the hard data to you and then give my personal opinion of which one I think is the best. Once you choose one based on my research I'll ship it up to you. That way you can relax and redo the yard and pour the slab without having to worry about this complex and important issue
Last edited by 58limited; February 27, 2021, 08:15 AM.
Grill/Smoke/Roast = SnS Grills Kettle + SnS Deluxe Insert & Drip n' Griddle
Grill/Smoke/Roast = Hasty-Bake Gourmet Dual Finish with HB rotisserie and Grill Grates
Smoke = Weber Smokey Mountain 22.5"
Pizza = Blackstone Propane Pizza Oven (Stacy's, but she let's me use it sometimes)
Indoor Cooking = LG Studio 30" gas range
Camp Cooking = Coleman 2 burner white gas stove
Thermometer = FireBoard FBX2 with 2 ambient and 6 meat probes
Thermapen Mk IV = Light blue
Thermapen Mk IV = Black
PID Controller = Fireboard Drive + Auber 20 CFM Fan (FB gen 1 fan)
PID Controller = Fireboard Drive + Fireboard 20 CFM Fan (FB gen 2 fan)
Knives
Wusthof Classic Ikon set: 9" carving knive, 2X 8" Chef's Knife, 7" Santoku and three utility knives
Kamikoto Kuro set: 7" Santoku, 6.5" Nakiri, 5" Utility
Amazing Ribs Brazilian Steak knife set
Favorite wine = whatever is currently in the wine rack
Favorite beer = Sam Adams Boston Lager or Shiner Bock
Favorite whisky = Lagavulin Distiller's Edition 16 year old single malt
Best Cookbooks - Meathead's "The Science of Great Barbecue and Grilling", Chris Lilly's "Big Bob Gibson's BBQ Book", Aaron Franklin's "Franklin BBQ"
Cookbooks to check out - Raichlen's "Brisket Chronicles" and anything by Adam Perry Lang.
Current fanboy cookbook - "Chasing Smoke: Cooking Over Fire Around the Levant"
So, here is where I'm headed. It's going to be a slower and more deliberate process than I was thinking earlier this year. Some of that is because life happened and some of that is because I rethought the whole thing.
I added an SnS Kettle to my line up to assuage my MCS without spending $4K. :-)
Next, I'm going to create a better outdoor cooking and drinking space. That is going to come first. To do that, I need to level out and terrace a chunk of the yard. It happens to be a corner that isn't much used at all. In fact, the only use it gets is Dunkin charging after squirrels. But there's a lot of good tree cover, which will be handy in the summer AND the winter.
Once leveled/terraced out, I'm going to pave it with paving stones to get good, flat surfaces. This solves the dog charging and powersliding and wrecking the grass and flowerbeds like he does now. And gives me space for the cookers and some chairs and tables. I can move all my current gear down there and I will have a nice cooking and cigar smoking space.
After that, I can build an outdoor bar along one side of the space, something I've always wanted to do. Because of the heavy tree cover, it gets very little rain in there. I may not even have to build a roof. If I do, that's okay. It's also along the fence of the neighbor that loves being tormented by me smoking and grilling, so that's fun.
Then, when the new space is in place and good to go, I'm going to figure out what kind of cookers I want. I'm thinking a santa maria grill and an offset, plus an SnS kettle, and I will be in great shape. And then some lucky guy or gal in the Pacific NW will get to buy my Hasty-Bake.
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