Amazing Ribs has really been a huge help to me! I recently bought a Camp Chef Smoke Vault and I love it. But, everything I cook on it takes way longer than Meat says it should in his book. I'm using a Maverick dual thermometer and everything I have cooked has tasted fantastic! I'm cooking at 225 and looking for 203 internally. But, I had to cook to Boston Butts for 28 Hours and I have a brisket on now for 14 hours and counting and it is only up to 185! Any ideas? Any tips? I'm very new to this, any help would be greatly appreciated.
Lonestar Grillz 24x36 offset smoker, grill, w/ main chamber charcoal grate and 3 tel-tru thermometers - left, right and center
Yoke Up custom charcoal basket and a Grill Wraps cover.
22.5 copper kettle w/ SnS, DnG, BBQ vortex, gasket and stainless steel hinge kit.
Napoleon gas grill (soon to go bye bye) rotting out.
1 maverick et-733 digital thermometer - black
1 maverick et-733 - gray
1 new standard grilling remote digital thermometer
1 thermoworks thermopen mk4 - red
1 thermoworks thermopop - red
Pre Miala flavor injector
taylor digital scale
TSM meat grinder
chefs choice food slicer
cuisinhart food processor
food saver vacuum sealer
TSM harvest food dehydrator
If you're cooks are taking that long @225 you can definitely kick up the temps to 250* maybe even 275*. They will both come out great.
Are you wrapping or just letting them ride? That can also make a big difference in your times.
In all seriousness, what are you using for your thermometer? If you are relying on the builtin lid thermometer there is a very good chance it is way off, 50 degrees or more (mine can be off by as much as 100 degrees). It is essential that you have an accurate reading at the grate level where the meat is.
Ok, just noticed that you are using a Mav thermometer, but that would still be my first suspect. I've had bad probes read low, but I suppose a bad probe could read high, too. When was the last time you checked your meat probe in boiling water?
Last edited by boftx; January 17, 2017, 10:07 PM.
Reason: Added comment about my being blind to the original post.
boftx, I finally took the brisket off last night after about 15 hours. I did a boiling water calibration check this morning and both probes on the Maverick read 212 at full boil. My rack probe was on the same shelf as the meat. Still puzzled. Thanks!
Grill/Smoke/Roast = SnS Grills Kettle + SnS Deluxe Insert & Drip n' Griddle
Grill/Smoke/Roast = Hasty-Bake Gourmet Dual Finish with HB rotisserie and Grill Grates
Smoke = Weber Smokey Mountain 22.5"
Pizza = Blackstone Propane Pizza Oven (Stacy's, but she let's me use it sometimes)
Indoor Cooking = LG Studio 30" gas range
Camp Cooking = Coleman 2 burner white gas stove
Thermometer = FireBoard FBX2 with 2 ambient and 6 meat probes
Thermapen Mk IV = Light blue
Thermapen Mk IV = Black
PID Controller = Fireboard Drive + Auber 20 CFM Fan (FB gen 1 fan)
PID Controller = Fireboard Drive + Fireboard 20 CFM Fan (FB gen 2 fan)
Knives
Wusthof Classic Ikon set: 9" carving knive, 2X 8" Chef's Knife, 7" Santoku and three utility knives
Kamikoto Kuro set: 7" Santoku, 6.5" Nakiri, 5" Utility
Amazing Ribs Brazilian Steak knife set
Favorite wine = whatever is currently in the wine rack
Favorite beer = Sam Adams Boston Lager or Shiner Bock
Favorite whisky = Lagavulin Distiller's Edition 16 year old single malt
Best Cookbooks - Meathead's "The Science of Great Barbecue and Grilling", Chris Lilly's "Big Bob Gibson's BBQ Book", Aaron Franklin's "Franklin BBQ"
Cookbooks to check out - Raichlen's "Brisket Chronicles" and anything by Adam Perry Lang.
Current fanboy cookbook - "Chasing Smoke: Cooking Over Fire Around the Levant"
Hi there SmokinIt .... first things first ... welcome to the Pit!
Okay, now here's a few questions for you, and a couple thoughts on the issue. And a caveat ... I have no experience with a vault style smoker. I think many issues are generic to grilling and cooking, generally, though.
questions
1. what grade brisket are you cooking?
2. For the pork butts, are they bone in, boneless, how big, where did you buy them? Artisanal pigs, or factory farm?
3. Where is your grate probe and where/how are you placing your meat probe?
4. Did your pork butt hit a stall? For how long? What did you do about it?
5. Are you using water pans in the Vault?
6. Are you wrapping your meat (i.e. Texas Crutch)?
Some tips
And this tip is the most important one I can think of. I'm going to devote some time to it ... the meat's internal temperature is a guideline, not a hard and fast rule. I have found, especially with quality meats (think Choice or Prime briskets, Costco level (or Artisanal) pork) that internal temp of the meat is less important than if the meat is tender. As you read through Meathead's recipes, one thing he talks about is that all meat cooks different and that meat is done when it's done. What this means is that you need to use that temperature as a guideline and the actual done-ness of the meat should be how you decide when it is ready.
For example ... a brisket is done when a probe (something long and thin, like you might use to probe a pan of brownies or the probe of an instant read thermometer) .. when the probe goes into the thickest part of the brisket and feels to you like a knife going into room temp butter, the meat is done. Regardless of what the internal temp says. I find that a Choice brisket, generally, gets to that place somewhere around 198-200 and a Prime brisket more like 195. This is because the meat gets tender as the fat and collagen in the meat renders and breaks down. So, the higher quality, the less time needed to achieve that outcome.
ys
This same rule applies to pork butts. I use a probe test, like described above, or a bone twist test if it is a bone in pork butt. On Sunday I cooked a boneless pork butt from Costco and it was done at 194F ... after I was in a stall for 2.5 hours and going crazy over it.
Okay, enough about that.
Another tip, and maybe an easier one ... consider cooking at 250 or even 275. I know that Meathead says 225, but my experience is that pork butts cook very well at 275 and brisket at 250 ... general rule of thumb I use.
I hope all this helps. I'll add more detail based on answers to my questions. :-)
Thanks for the welcome! Butts and Brisket were Choice from Costco. Yes on water pan. I smoked two Butts at once and they hit the stall for.........ever. I finally gave in and bumped the temp up about 20 degrees. Not using Texas crutch yet, don't want to harm the bark. Great info! Thanks!
Grill/Smoke/Roast = SnS Grills Kettle + SnS Deluxe Insert & Drip n' Griddle
Grill/Smoke/Roast = Hasty-Bake Gourmet Dual Finish with HB rotisserie and Grill Grates
Smoke = Weber Smokey Mountain 22.5"
Pizza = Blackstone Propane Pizza Oven (Stacy's, but she let's me use it sometimes)
Indoor Cooking = LG Studio 30" gas range
Camp Cooking = Coleman 2 burner white gas stove
Thermometer = FireBoard FBX2 with 2 ambient and 6 meat probes
Thermapen Mk IV = Light blue
Thermapen Mk IV = Black
PID Controller = Fireboard Drive + Auber 20 CFM Fan (FB gen 1 fan)
PID Controller = Fireboard Drive + Fireboard 20 CFM Fan (FB gen 2 fan)
Knives
Wusthof Classic Ikon set: 9" carving knive, 2X 8" Chef's Knife, 7" Santoku and three utility knives
Kamikoto Kuro set: 7" Santoku, 6.5" Nakiri, 5" Utility
Amazing Ribs Brazilian Steak knife set
Favorite wine = whatever is currently in the wine rack
Favorite beer = Sam Adams Boston Lager or Shiner Bock
Favorite whisky = Lagavulin Distiller's Edition 16 year old single malt
Best Cookbooks - Meathead's "The Science of Great Barbecue and Grilling", Chris Lilly's "Big Bob Gibson's BBQ Book", Aaron Franklin's "Franklin BBQ"
Cookbooks to check out - Raichlen's "Brisket Chronicles" and anything by Adam Perry Lang.
Current fanboy cookbook - "Chasing Smoke: Cooking Over Fire Around the Levant"
SmokinIt I think you have a temp problem. where is your grate probe in the vault? Cause at 225 those butts should have been jerky after 28 hours .... I think your temp inside the chamber was somewhat lower than 225. boftx?
Agreed, I think one of his temp probes is lying to him. Unless those are just HUGE (or YUGE!!!!) pork butts. 14 hours on the brisket might be okay depending on size. Mine typically take 16 - 20 hours for a full packer. I usually figure on 12 hours for a 8 - 9 pound butt.
Hi, my name is Darrell. I'm an OTR truck driver for over 25 years. During my off time I love doing backyard cooks. I have a 48" Lang Deluxe smoker, Rec-Tec pellet smoker,1 Weber Genesis 330, 1 Weber Performer (blue), 2 Weber kettles (1 black and 1 Copper), 1 26" Weber kettle, a WSM, 8 Maverick Redi Chek thermometers, a PartyQ, 2 SnS, Grill Grates, Cast Iron grates, 1 ThermoPop (orange) and 2 ThermoPens (pink and orange) and planning on adding more cooking accessories. Now I have an Anova sous vide, the Dragon blower and 2 Chef alarms from Thermoworks.
Thanks for the welcome, the pitt is gonna be a fantastic resource! My wife thinks I'm a genius on the smoker now. We haven't had a bad meal yet and I have cooked Butts, Salmon, Brisket and Ribs so far. Every meal has been delicious.
ecowper, when I first started smoking I picked up 2 verticals to try. I did 3 butts and 1 took 14 hours and the other 2 took over 24 hours. Frustrated me to death as to why. I stuck them in the back and havnt used em since. Got another cooker. Now it takes 8 hours.
My theory is the placement of the meat related to the heat source (one is wood only, the other has gas which is what I used last time). I didn't crutch them (which I think was prob #1 and 2, it started to rain that night during the cook and the outside air temp dropped).
Since one was done I decided to turn the gas on overnight and go to sleep and see what happens to the next 2 in the morning. I thought they would turn to jerky also.
Got up at 7 am and they just hit 203.
What really surprised me was that they were delicious. They were so good that I took some up to my daughter who was sleeping in bed and woke her up. Now anyone who has a 16 yr ole daughter knows that they DO not like to be woken up that early especially on a Sunday to take try a piece of pork. I explained the situation , she sits up and grabed a piece and ate it. She looked at me and said "dang, your right, that is really good". Then she took another piece ate it then laid back down and went back to sleep.
But why did it do it?
i think it was temp. I maintained 225 and that with cooler air and placement of the meat to the fire.
Now I cook in the 250 to 275 range on my good cooker and don't have that problem
i will return to my vertical to test my theory when I do a lazy cook for myself and not pressed for so much time. I'm pretty sure it's the temp all along
ecowper, I finally took the brisket off last night after about 15 hours. I did a boiling water calibration check this morning and both probes on the Maverick read 212 at full boil. My rack probe was on the same shelf as the meat. Still puzzled. Thanks!
A lot of what ecowper mentioned and the questions he asked could definitely be factors. I would also definitely test that probe and thermometer to make sure it is working properly. Exposure to moisture and/or high humidity can cause it to act up.
OR.....
You could just get a PBC and not have to worry about those long cook times anymore!
Cookers:
SnS Kettle with SnS Deluxe, SS & Cast iron pans, elevated grate.
Grilla OG with upper shelf and pizza stone.
Weber Genesis SA-E-330 LP INDIGO with SS Grates, Weber Crafted frame kit, baking stone, griddle (2/3), all from Ace Hardware.
Everything Else:
SnS #3 I was their first customer.
Sous Vide equipment.
Instant read and leave-in thermometers.
Grill Grates.
Kingsford Blue Bag, Weber lighter cubes, Weber charcoal chimneys.
BBQr's Delight Hickory & Apple flavor pellets, propane torch, 12" smoke tube.
Grilla apple & hickory pellets, Royal Oak charcoal pellets.
Rubs with salt: Meat Church, Meathead's.
Rubs without salt: SnS Grills Rocky's Rub and Not Just for Beef.
Rubs home-mixed: None at this time.
Spices: Lots of 'em.
Everyone has given you some good advice. I don't know your cooker, but am wondering if the fact that we have cold weather is effecting things. I cook on a ceramic so heat does not dissipate rapidly to the ambient temperature outside the cooker. I am wondering if your probe being close to the meat is indicating one temperature, but much of your chamber is cooler due to dissipation to the outside. You might check your probe readings in cold weather by moving the probe to various levels in your cooker and taking a reading at each level after it has been there for 15 minutes or so.
outside of everyone here my experience is the same as yours. when i ran at 225 my butts would take 24+ hours and the brisket was similar. i upped the temps to float around 250-270 and my times have come WAY down with no impact on the quality of the food.
it all depends on your smoker and your environment. just up the temp and you'll be fine
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