Smoke flavor frustration

[BBQ_Bill]

Okay, one of the best (as usual) is Dr. Greg Blonder's PDF explaining smoke as used for flavoring foods.
It can be found HERE.
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I KNOW I am going to hear a bunch of backlash for this suggestion...
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ls1m try this...
1) Mix up a diluted spray bottle full of liquid Mesquite or liquid Hickory smoke.
2) Slice a nice cut of your bird's breast meat.
3) Go outside, take few breaths of fresh air and then spray a single shot of fine mist onto the slice of meat with this sprayer bottle.
Now, taste it while out in the fresh air to make sure that your taste buds are still able to taste strong smoke flavors.
Maybe even let your wife try a bite as well and please post your results here.
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My wife and I used to make and sell beef and elk jerky.
Bought a commercial dehydrator and we used liquid Mesquite and Liquid Hickory.
If marinaded too long it was overpowering with smoky flavor.
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I can only hope that you can get the strong smoky flavor you want through this method as I personally prefer a light to medium smoky flavor on my meats.
On my KBQ's I'm totally happy with a small (1/8" to 1/4") opening of the Top Poppet in my KBQ as needed.
You had mentioned that you went with the top poppet fully open for one smoke.
I did that as well and the smoke flavor was simply too much for me and for some of my customers as well.
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The wood might have something to do with the intensity of the smoke...
I gotta tell ya, I am still baffled by this problem my friend.

[BBQ_Bill]

ls1m
This full packer was 1st seared over a Kingsford charcoal bed in my 22" Weber.
It was then KBQ smoked using Oak only for 9-1/2 hours before wrapping.
The Oak was from a harvest in the mountains up North and was dry, cut, split, aged and stacked on wooden pallets out back.
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For this smoke/cook...
I only had the bottom poppet open, and the flavor was one of the best ever according to Dad who has enjoyed many of my smoked meats.
Was it really smoky?
I don't think so, but seriously delicious per family and friends that ate it yesterday.

[BBQ_Bill]

In this photo, you can see the point and flat ends got more smoke, and are darker in color.
The point (bottom right) was towards the back of the KBQ, with the flat end towards the door.

[bbqncigars]

I get great smoke flavor on my meats doing the following: do NOT mess with the firebox if the fan is pulling air through it, keep the coals fluffed and the tray holes unblocked, check fire every 15-20 minutes and add wood up to the top of the box and keep the lid on, use mostly the top (dirty) draw. A crappy pic of a brisket with 2 1/2 hours of applewood smoke at 145, followed by 14 hours at 165 in the tub.
Asides from the bark, it was as good smoke-wise as any brisket I've nursed on the EOS.

[ls1m]

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. I did some chicken & sausage yesterday with some hickory sticks from Fruita. Aside from being ridiculously expensive, I learned that they burn slower and produce less visible smoke. Got just enough smoke flavor for me to say "Hmmm, I think I can taste the smoke flavor this time" and my family to say "OMG that is way too smokey for me!" That was with both of the poppets open. I can tell when I eat it, too, because the food makes soot skid marks on the plate.

I guess it's just personal preference. Same reason they have to dilute my coffee before they can drink it. Definitely better with the Fruita wood. Will have to find a local source for air-dried firewood.

-Mark

[ls1m]

I gotta say, my "customers" really like it when it's clean-smoked. For some reason, what I've made on the KBQ so far has come out really, really juicy. I don't know if there's something special about how smoke cooks vs other methods. Maybe it's just more humid.

[Quailsroost Smokers]

Hey Mark,
One thing you can do to up the smoke flavor. If you have any drippings left in the pan when you pull the meat (or take some out at different times during), mix them back into the meat after cutting/pulling, etc.. There is a lot of smoke flavor in the drippings.

[ls1m]

That is true, drippings can be pretty intense. I'll have to save some next time & see.

[ls1m]

I think the flavor I'm missing is actually poison. It's either creosote, MSG or burnt sugar. I find creosote smells and tastes "like barbeque" but it makes me feel sick. MSG is what I think was in some meat that a guy brought to work this week - smelled great, tasted like flavored potato chips and made my lips tingle. It could also be sugar, which my diabetic wife will tell you is also a type of poison, in large amounts anyway.

After eating several samples of meat from the department BBQ guy (company pot-luck), and the next day eating some of my leftover BBQ ribs and sausage, I gotta say, either he was off his game, or my standards have gone up. Sausage was pretty lame since I left it in too long and it shriveled up, but it was still better than what he cooked, and the ribs were ohmygosjuicytodiefor good, if I do say so myself. Still learning. Got a big cook coming up for the weekend, will see how my brisket turns out.

I read somewhere that using too much oil can block the smoke. Any truth to that? On all my cooks so far, I've put a coat of light olive oil down and then rubbed. I'm going to try without oil on my next cook.

[BBQ_Bill]

ls1m
Been thinking about the extra smoke thing.
I have been going with 1 hour of freezer before a lower temperature smoke for two hours.
THIS adds much more flavor. Then I kick it up to the 230° to 235°F.

[BBQ_Bill]

I agree that Professor Blonder's articles ROCK Quailsroost Smokers

[KBQ]

I think you are looking for creosote. The bottom poppet is designed specifically to avoid it, so run bottom shut, top open, lid on, with air-dried wood no bigger then a coke can. That will make some creosote.

[BBQ_Bill]

When I run really clean smoke with bottom poppet only, and continually maintain a good coal bed, I've noticed that my fan blades are tan/gray colored after the smoke.
So what you say makes sense KBQ

[lostclusters]

I've been on a multi-year quest for smokey flavored BBQ. I've had it before, rarely, and it's a little difficult to describe: strong, acrid, pungent, not burnt but definitely woody/oaky. No mistake it has been smoked. Some BBQ joints can have it one visit and not the next. It's not just the head-filling aura of vapor, and it's not ashy; it's sharp and distinctive.

As an avid amazingribs reader, I've tried some of their top recommendations:
- Bought a Rec Tec pellet grill, tried every kind of pellet I could find. Very mild smoke flavor, at best.
- Bought a smokin-tube to add to the Rec Tec. Very smokey if you like licking ash trays.
- Bought a Pit Barrel Cooker. I got kinda close with some mesquite lump charcoal once, but couldn't reproduce it. Flavor chips helped a little. Mostly just tasted like burnt drippings.
- Bought a KBQ a few weeks ago. With the bottom poppet only, I get that head-filling aura, and using the top poppet adds ashy texture. Not much smoke flavor. I've tried hickory, mesquite, post oak, all from sports & grocery stores. Looking for a local supplier but not sure who to trust.

What am I missing? I did a turkey yesterday with a 2 1/2" steam pan in the KBQ, fed it mesquite logs for almost 3 hours, set at 265. My wife says it was the best turkey she ever had. It was good, no doubt, dry-brined, juicy and all, but I just can't get the smoke smell into the meat!

If I could make my brisket taste like the post oak smells, I'd be in Heaven. I even tried doing open-flame grilling with the PBC and all that did was put smoke ash on the surface of the meat. Probably because I was using the bottom vent to regulate the fire, starving it of full combustion, making soot. At least I don't get any soot with the KBQ. Awesome design, looks like it has great potential if I actually knew what I was doing.

So what do you think? Wrong fuel? Humidity issues?

Thanks
-Mark

As far as I know ALL pellet machines will only have a light smokey favor. It's the nature of that type of machine. I have found that with the KBQ you need a lot of wood in the fire box. After the wood on top starts to coal (gets ashy marks that glow red when blown on) open the top poppet about an 1/8". Bottom poppet open full all the time. Close the top poppet when adding fresh wood, until it coals. Or, if that is not enough, leave the top open all the time. Have you tried experimenting this way? Use splits only after forming a nice coal bed. Check poppets often, they'll get jarred around when adding wood. With the PBC I would put 6 - 8 chunks of would under the coals. Use the minion method of lighting. I hear that some just lay their wood on top of the coals. I am an under the coals wood guy. To me, it sounds like you are a wood on top of the coals guy. I have never used a water pan. I am not saying I never will. Just that I have not seen a need to yet. Spritz often, it helps smoke stick.

It should be possible to get the results you are looking for with any pit really. You just need time to get to know how to operate your pit to get the results you are looking for.

[ls1m]

The salesman looked at me like I was crazy when I said pellet grills don't make enough smoke flavor. I think I'm getting closer with the KBQ cooking real wood. Getting better at running a good coal bed. I've tried the top poppet a little, but it just made the meat sooty, not smokey. Maybe I opened it up too soon. I use binder clips to make sure they stay in position.

[Mastro]

I've been on a multi-year quest for smokey flavored BBQ. I've had it before, rarely, and it's a little difficult to describe: strong, acrid, pungent, not burnt but definitely woody/oaky. No mistake it has been smoked. Some BBQ joints can have it one visit and not the next. It's not just the head-filling aura of vapor, and it's not ashy; it's sharp and distinctive.

As an avid amazingribs reader, I've tried some of their top recommendations:
- Bought a Rec Tec pellet grill, tried every kind of pellet I could find. Very mild smoke flavor, at best.
- Bought a smokin-tube to add to the Rec Tec. Very smokey if you like licking ash trays.
- Bought a Pit Barrel Cooker. I got kinda close with some mesquite lump charcoal once, but couldn't reproduce it. Flavor chips helped a little. Mostly just tasted like burnt drippings.
- Bought a KBQ a few weeks ago. With the bottom poppet only, I get that head-filling aura, and using the top poppet adds ashy texture. Not much smoke flavor. I've tried hickory, mesquite, post oak, all from sports & grocery stores. Looking for a local supplier but not sure who to trust.

What am I missing? I did a turkey yesterday with a 2 1/2" steam pan in the KBQ, fed it mesquite logs for almost 3 hours, set at 265. My wife says it was the best turkey she ever had. It was good, no doubt, dry-brined, juicy and all, but I just can't get the smoke smell into the meat!

If I could make my brisket taste like the post oak smells, I'd be in Heaven. I even tried doing open-flame grilling with the PBC and all that did was put smoke ash on the surface of the meat. Probably because I was using the bottom vent to regulate the fire, starving it of full combustion, making soot. At least I don't get any soot with the KBQ. Awesome design, looks like it has great potential if I actually knew what I was doing.

So what do you think? Wrong fuel? Humidity issues?

Thanks
-Mark

Amen, Mark! We’re long lost brothers! I’ve struggled with the same thing. I have an egg and now a KBQ in search of a fabled taste of hickory that I sometimes get at bbq places. Like you, I’m impressed with the KBQ, but I thought it would impart more of the wood [hickory] flavor. The KBQ has a non distinct wood flavor; you know you’ve cooked with wood, but no way to tell what kind. That’s my opinion, in fairness I’ve only used it a couple times, so far and need a lot more time in the saddle. Needless to say even if I figure it out I’m going to use it as an excuse with my wife so I can add a Lang 36 to the collection.

Makes me wonder about liquid smoke and how they make that; the good stuff, not the ones that have all those filler ingredients. I’ve had used some when I’ve made jerky on the dehydrator; created that great, pure flavor like what you smell when you burn hickory, mesquite or apple, etc.

I’m happy to join your search team!

mike

[ls1m]

I've tried liquid smoke before, too. I must have gotten the wrong brand because it didn't taste/smell like smoke at all. Just kind of acidic. The KBQ makes some amazing food, that's for sure, just not what I expected/hoped for.

[ls1m]

I got some good smoke flavor yesterday. Did the Christmas eve meal: two turkeys, a pork loin and a round roast. All turned out really, really good and had a distinct, non-over-powering, non-sooty smoke flavor I left the top poppet open just a little like BBQ Bill suggested, but instead of leaving the lid on, I just kind of covered that end of the fire box so it won't suck cold air in. Ymmv, but this setup worked for me. It may be the climate or the type of wood I'm using, but with the lid completely on, I got more of a putrid black smoke. Using this setup, I got just the right amount of pure blue smoke to compliment the clean stuff going through the coals; just enough to remind you that it was smoked outdoors. All the food got rave reviews.


For this cook I used small mesquite splits so I could position them where I want. Seemed to work better than big ones that fill up the whole chamber & then take forever to coal.

-Mark

[ls1m]

And by the way, Merry Christmas everyone!

[BBQ_Bill]

And a Merry Christmas to you and yours Mark.
HAPPY your smoke flavor was right where you want it!
SUPER!