Can't hold 225

[GoDuke]

I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but for whatever reason, I can't get my Summit to hold 225. This weekend I did a rib cook. Got the summit all stabilized at 230, put the ribs and a water pan on and it came back up to 180. Figured it would take a bit of time to warm up because of the cold mass of the ribs (2 racks) and a full water pan with cold tap water. It never really did. I wound up chasing temps up to get to 225 and it took about 3 hours until I finally got there, and then it started to overshoot, which I allowed because I was already "behind" on my cook from the low temps.

So, I resolved to run some temp control experiments just to see how the cooker behaved over long stretches. I started a cook yesterday at around 9am. Charcoal chamber is full of B&B briquettes and some KBB (Trying to get rid of my KBB). Here's a bit of the play by play

Overview of the "cook"

• OAT - 40s to 50's
• Run in Kamado mode
• Temp control was done using the top vent. To try and be as precise as possible, I used Allen wrenches to measure the vent openings. For example, much of this cook was with the vent set so a 7/32 Allen wrench could fit int he vent hole.
• started with the snap-jet on for 5 minutes, then closed the lid, opened the top vent about 50% and set the bottom vent to the Weber Smoke setting
• Cooker was in the sun from about 9am to 3ishpm. Sun was more direct from about 9am to 11am
• "My smoke" setting is the bottom vent about 1/2 between closed and Weber's smoke setting. Top vent set to a 7/32 opening
• No food, water pan, or anything.
• Every now and then I'd sweep the ash
• 

First spike I guess is because I didn't choke the vents down to my smoke setting soon enough and temps got away. Then it seemed to stablize at 260, I choked the top vents back to 5/32 initially until it got to 220 and then 3/16 when I saw it continuing to drop.

After that, I set the top vent to 7/32, ("my smoke") and let it run. I accidentally knocked the vent around 3:00 and think I used the wrong Allen key to set it back to 7/32, and I caught that around 4:45 (the second dip you see).

Everything after that was the cooker completely untouched. In particular, from when you see the high temp alerts (I was just playing with the app), nothing really changed outside either. Sun was down, it was evening, temps got colder, but not catastrophically so. Here's what that looks light as a subset of the whole chart


This is similar to what I experienced previously with an overnight cook. Temp seems to stabilize around 225 at 9:30, and then it takes off to 260 before coming back down, in this case to 195. I realize temps won't hold rock-steady, but this is kind of frustrating. Is this normal to expect? Any thoughts on troubleshooting?

What should I try for my next temp testing?

[HawkerXP]

I don't track cooks like this. I personally wouldn't worry about those kinds of temp swings. You will never get a rock-solid stable temp. Now if you use a fan the swings will not be as wild. I don't use one of them either. Relax and have fun!

[mrteddyprincess]

I'm not going to bother repeating good advice. +1. I would only add that cooking at a higher temp is preferred to "choking" any airflow to keep temps down. I value airflow over maintaining low temps.

[smokin fool]

Agreed, your looking for perfection in an unperfect science.
Somedays I chase my Keg around the back yard trying to achieve a temp other days pegged rock solid on the temp I want.
I've never used a fan so can't comment on they're use.

[glitchy]

For 225 without ATC, my top vent would barely be open and bottom would be just shy of the smoke setting. I don’t think my top vent has ever been more than 1/8” open for a cook 275 or under, but I don’t measure it. In my experience the WSCG/Kamado is super sensitive to top vent changes.

[au4stree]

This is how mine runs as well. My problem is my top vent is super loose, so any lid openings I have to reset the opening….🤷🏼‍♂️

[DTro]

Use hot water in the pan?

[Razor]

Was going to say the same. I see no advantage to adding cold water.

[Old Glory]

So many variables. I love my WSCG but some days I am chasing temps all over the place other times I hit my mark and it is pretty stable.

I don't use the snap jet. I like to load my coal (FOGO Lump) and wood chunks on the grate then light a 1/4 chimney of coals to get things started.

Once the coals are lit I close the bottom vent to a finger width then adjust the top vent as necessary. Wide open at first then closed down as I approach target temp. After that it either locks in fairly steady or I have to adjust every hour or so.

Worst case scenario is I get distracted and I overshoot target temp then it is a battle for the whole cook to maintain temp.

I am not crazy about trying to maintain 225. I shoot for 225 but usually bounce between 225-275 which is fine for me.

[CaptainMike]

This is my experience as well. My WSCG likes to run in the 250 range and is pretty stable there, good enough for anything I cook. I recommend trying some cooks without a water pan. I never use one in any of my cookers and my results are fine.

[Murdy]

Maybe put the water pan in from the start so you're not adding so much mass when you add the meat. it will also help hold temp when the meat goes on.

[Mosca]

That was the first thing I thought.

[CaptainMike]

And if using at least fill it with hot tap water, if not boiling water.

[GoDuke]

Thank you gentlemen for all of the thoughts so far! Just to clarify, the results above were without any water pan at all. I still have it going, so what I think I'm going to do next is refill the charcoal (if needed), add a water pan with HOT water, and then put two loaf pans in full of water to simulate meat. Then see where we go. Maybe the thermal mass of the water pan and the meat will really tamp down some of the variations.

Good to know that the results aren't too wackadoo with what would be normal. I realize technology is as much of a curse as a gift in this sense as BBQ did just fine for centuries without any level of precision, let alone 0.1% precision and wifi monitoring.

Just trying to understand and dial in my expectations. Thanks again! I'll report back!

[GoDuke]

OK here are some pics of where we stand after about 24 hours. first some remaining-coal pictures. That is what is left over from what I'd say was a 3/4 load. I made sure there was coal throughout the chamber, but not full to the brim. Added some more coal but didn't fill all the way because I don't plan on running this another 24hrs (Famous last words). Then I added a water pan with ~170 degree water - was just how hot I got it on the stovetop, wasn't shooting for that or anything. Then I added two foiled loaf pans filled with water

Left the vents where they were set (pics included). We'll see what she does next!

[smokin fool]

One thing I have started doing lately I putting my charcoal around the sides and leave the center bare to let air up thru.
Seems to be giving me better results

[LA Pork Butt]

I cook on a Big Green Egg. To hold at 225 without a controller and no excessive gusting winds the bottom vent is 1/4” open and the daisy wheel, which has small pebbles, are about half open. It takes me about 45 minutes to an hour to get the entire cooker fully heated and ready to cook. I would suggest putting hot water in your water pan. I also think that on a long low and slow cook like ribs and briskets using briquettes increases the risk of ash clogging and forcing you to keep adjusting airflow. I would suggest using lump charcoal with the bottom layer being the large followed by a layer of medium and then a layer of small. It works every time on my Big Green Egg.

[Mosca]

They’re all different! On my BGE, 225* is each vent barely cracked open the tiniest bit. If I set mine like yours I’d be at about 375.

[LA Pork Butt]

Mosca is that with a Kick Ash Basket? I find I run hotter with one and only use it for grilling and roasting.

[Mosca]

LA Pork Butt No, I don’t use the KAB, just the regular lower piece of cast iron with holes. I probably have a lot of leakage between the halves, but that’s what makes my BGE different from yours I guess.

[au4stree]

It’s been my experience that B&B briqs run a touch hot, love the charcoal, but compared to my usual RO briqs they run hot.

[bmillin]

I had a similar experience with my 22” kettle and the Big Poppa drum. They seem to be happier around 250 and the results are good. Chasing 225 seems to be more of a chore for me anyway.

[rickgregory]

As HawkerXP said, those temps are fine. (this is why I dislike graphs of cooks etc... they feed the obsession with precision). Also, there's nothing sacred about 225F. it's not the 'best' temp as there IS no 'best' temp. Smoke at 250 if it's easier to maintain temps there.

[au4stree]

If 1000% was possible, this 1000%. 👆🏼👆🏼

[GoDuke]

Thanks all for all of the continued thoughts. This has been helpful!

just to clarify, I'm not dogmatic about 225 as much as having a predictable low temp that I can hit. My reasoning for something below 250 is that I was hoping to avoid having to stay up real late or get up real early for big cooks like brisket. Based on my experience with my pellet pooper, if I start a brisket cook at 225 at around 8pm, it'll be done around mid-day and I can serve a late lunch or dinner. My concern about 250+ is that the cook would end too soon, or I'd have to get up super early and do a same-day cook. maybe that fear is unfounded.

re: the water pan, I didn't add it upfront because I waited until the meat was ready to go on to add the wood chunks. I figure no sense in wasting wood chunks while the grill is just heating up. Maybe preheating the water pan accomplishes both.

Right now sitting at 191 with the bottom vent opened past the smoke setting. Will report back!

[LA Pork Butt]

I am with you on those overnight cooks to serve for noon. I like my sleep.

[GoDuke]

Just getting back to this now, I've had this drafted for a few days but got sidetracked and its as in an open window.

Some interesting findings (to me) from the end of my "cook". Once I added the water pan and the loaf pans with water, the temps really just hung around 191 degrees, and I had to open the top vent more than normal to even get closer to 200. So I took the loaf pans out, and the temp then stabilized around 207. Took the water pan out, and left the vent settings where they were.

She settled in pretty smoothly at 260 and held there pretty constant. Backed the lower vent down a bit and she settled back down to about 245.

I'll spare you all the graphs (unless you want them) but what I took away was this:

The water pan on the heat deflector really just soaks up a ton of heat. I had heated the water in the pan up to 170, so it wasn't cold water, but it just served as a massive heat sink on top of the fire. I guess in a bullet smoker like a WSM, that's not as big of an issue because air can still bypass the water pan and it's not just sitting right on the fire, but in this case, it seems like the water being there, just absorbed whatever heat the deflector plate was radiating and little heat was able to go around it.

Loaf pans in the cooker reduced the temp by ~15 degrees. Maybe that's a heat control option if your cooker is running hot and you want to bring it down. I dunno if it would bring temps down if you were too high, but it would stand to reason the it does.

So, note to self, don't run a big heat sink on top of the heat deflector!