I am interested to know people's experiences with refrigerating food after sous vide cooking. My thought is, for instance, that if I sous vide/ice shock a couple of (vacuum-sealed) steaks today and then stick them in the fridge, will they be OK to finish next Saturday? Is a week too long?
How long in general do people hold different kinds of food after sous vide?
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Baltassar Awhile back on a Friday after work I started a Sous Vide on four Cross Rib Roasts at 135°F for 48 hours.
They were vacuum bagged individually and sealed nicely.
I then decided to hold them until the next weekend as I ran out of time to sear and serve due to "running out of weekend."
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They were pulled from the Sous Vide, and immediately cold shocked and stirred in a very large bowl of salted ice water.
(The ice water measured 22°F to 23°F when they took the plunge if memory serves me correctly)
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In just a few minutes they felt cold to the touch, so I went out and placed them in my holding fridge unit and held them there at a well controlled 28°F to 32°F.
A week later, on the following Saturday, all were pulled, opened and smelled.
They smelled great to the eaters, (Family and one close friend) so I seared two and smoked those two.
The other two were not seared, but were smoked as an experiment in flavor difference.
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Per the eaters, the seared ones had a slighter better flavor, but all were wonderful. NOW...
With that said, I would not do this again even though they were all gobbled up with no ill effects.
Before I decided to hold them, I gave this some serious thought and figured it this way...
1) The meat was fresh when I started and handling was sanitary and done right in my kitchen.
2) At 48 hours in the Sous Vide they were thoroughly pasteurized to the core.
3) The bag seals were good, so no bacteria could enter.
4) The cold shock minimized the time in the temperature range in which bacteria can grow. (If any live bacteria WERE there)
5) The 28°F to 32°F storage is below the 40°F limit where SOME bacteria can BEGIN to grow. (Again, even if they ARE live and there)
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My thoughts are if this ever happens again (Which I seriously doubt it will) I will sear, then bag, re-vacuum and refrigerate until the next weekend.
They do say, "When in doubt, throw it out."
I tend to agree, but in your case, searing is a viable option as there will be NO reason to toss them.
GRANTED, they probably would taste better if they were seared and eaten fresh, but use your own good judgement.
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This is my 2-Cents worth from my experience.
For a great read on Sous Vide Safety, try this Link HERE. Smoke On!
Last edited by BBQ_Bill; October 1, 2017, 02:06 PM.
After reading Sous Vide Safety, I DID NOT cold shock them long enough because of their thickness and shape.
However, Sous Vide, Cold Shock, and Hold at 40°F or below appears to be a standard procedure.
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ALSO, I messed up by depending on the aroma as the Sous Vide Safety Web Site says, "Don't use smell as a guide"
Like I said, a very good read indeed.
Last edited by BBQ_Bill; October 1, 2017, 02:32 PM.
Reason: Added more important info
BBQ_Bill Very interesting and informative, especially about the holding temperature. A few degrees of difference in the fridge can make a big difference, obviously. I pulled this from the link you provided:
Therefore, after rapid chilling, the food must either be frozen or held at
below 36.5°F (2.5°C) for up to 90 days,
below 38°F (3.3°C) for less than 31 days,
below 41°F (5°C) for less than 10 days, or
below 44.5°F (7°C) for less than 5 day
It take this to mean that if you have good cold fridge (<40 degrees) a week would be ok from a safety perspective; maybe harder to say from an eating perspective. I think the folks who stick at 48 hours are probably right on that score.
What raised the question was seeing a comment in a recipe (on Serious Eats? Can't say for sure) that once the sous vide was done you could hold for a week in the fridge. Sounds like that's basically true assuming good technique and a good fridge, but probably not a great idea all things considered.
It also says...
Foods you’ve pasteurized must either be eaten immediately or rapidly chilled and refrigerated to prevent the outgrowth and multiplication of spores.
And...
The most popular methods of sous vide cooking are cook-chill and cook-freeze – raw (or partially cooked) ingredients are vacuum sealed, pasteurized, rapidly chilled.
Looking at Dan Baldwin's site. It seems contradicting. Here is one quote:
"While keeping your food sealed in plastic pouches prevents recontamination after cooking, spores of Clostridium botulinum, C. perfringens, and B. cereus can all survive the mild heat treatment of pasteurization. Therefore, after rapid chilling, the food must either be frozen or held at
below 36.5°F (2.5°C) for up to 90 days,
below 38°F (3.3°C) for less than 31 days,
below 41°F (5°C) for less than 10 days, or
below 44.5°F (7°C) for less than 5 days
to prevent spores of non-proteolytic C. botulinum from outgrowing and producing deadly neurotoxin (Gould, 1999; Peck, 1997)."
================================================== =============================
"To keep these spores from becoming active bacteria, you must quickly cool your food – still sealed in its pouch – in ice water that is at least half ice until it’s cold all the way through. You can then store your food in your refrigerator for a few days or freeze it for up to a year."
So it isn't clear to me what the definitive answer is. I've read elsewhere that leftovers can be left in the fridge for 3-4 days. Not clear to me why this wouldn't apply to SV'd food.
Hugh I was also thinking that sous vide-cooked food is basically a "left over"; which also suggests that a few days, rather than week, is the relevant window.
Time and temperature are the key factors in my thoughts.
A sealed and then Pasteurized bag of food to me is safer and will have less bacteria and spores than the steak that was Q'ed and put in a Tupperware bowl.
It is the number of bacteria that are there in which time and temperature are the ruling factors.
Does that sound good to you guys?
Now that I think of it, I don't ever recall having problems with cooked, refrigerated food from a wholesomeness (safety) perspective. But I think from a quality control perspective it probably makes sense not to hold things too long.
I have around one dozen of the cheap TruTemp 3507 refrigerator temperature gauges.
Put three or four on each shelf.
Got them from Walmart and eBay.
They seem to be acceptable as they have been working well for almost one year.
I used my Thermapen MK4 to confirm the actual temperature.
They fill my need to keep an eye on temps throughout the unit.
Sweet!
The near instant reaction of the Thermapen MK4 plus you have to "touch" it to get it to "wake up" makes it difficult to photo and see to compare them, but our eyes are quick
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Looking at Dan Baldwin's site. It seems contradicting. Here is one quote:
"While keeping your food sealed in plastic pouches prevents recontamination after cooking, spores of Clostridium botulinum, C. perfringens, and B. cereus can all survive the mild heat treatment of pasteurization. Therefore, after rapid chilling, the food must either be frozen or held at
below 36.5°F (2.5°C) for up to 90 days,
below 38°F (3.3°C) for less than 31 days,
below 41°F (5°C) for less than 10 days, or
below 44.5°F (7°C) for less than 5 days
to prevent spores of non-proteolytic C. botulinum from outgrowing and producing deadly neurotoxin (Gould, 1999; Peck, 1997)."
================================================== =============================
"To keep these spores from becoming active bacteria, you must quickly cool your food – still sealed in its pouch – in ice water that is at least half ice until it’s cold all the way through. You can then store your food in your refrigerator for a few days or freeze it for up to a year."
So it isn't clear to me what the definitive answer is. I've read elsewhere that leftovers can be left in the fridge for 3-4 days. Not clear to me why this wouldn't apply to SV'd food.
Hugh , Douglas Baldwin says the same thing in his book. He clarifies his comments, though, by saying that although you can keep food in the refrigerator for times/temps first listed, many home refrigerators are seldom in the 37-40°F range. He believes that most home refrigerators cycle higher than that. So that's why his general recommendation, to be on the safe side, is "a few days". In the time/temp list, that would, most likely, assume a 44°F refrigerator, so 5 days is the max.
I also keep my second refrigerator at 34-35 degrees, and have thermometers on each shelf. It sure helps with peace of mind as well as good-quality food preservation.
Kathryn
Edited to add: I have Douglas Baldwin's Sous Vide for the Home Cook book, and it's worth every penny. I've read that section on food safety probably half a dozen times since getting my Joule, and refer to it all the time. There are many opinions on the internet about food safety, but not many backed up by scientific research, calculations, and fact like Baldwin has done.
You folks have me to thinking....our main fridge is open half the time as we get milk for coffee, leftovers, etc. etc. It probably is at the higher end as you point out fzxdoc
My second fridge in the basement is only opened by me and only on occasion. I'm going to crank it down and throw my thermometers in it. No reason I can't use it for left overs. I did two chuck roasts last night and I have a massive ziploc of leftover meat. I feel much better leaving 1/2 of in the second fridge.
I ended up with a second fridge (in the garage) because the folks that sold us the house left theirs. Not sure what I'd do without it at this point. Main things in it are beer, wine, and meat -- the basic food groups right there!
I agree that beer, wine and meat are the three basic food groups, but for me, the beer belongs in the MAIN fridge. All that green leafy stuff can wilt on the counter
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