SV Pork Butt success, with asterisks...

[abandonedbrain]

(SPOILER: If you haven't read any of my posts before, mainly in the PBC section of The Pit, I'm chatty, story-driven and detail-oriented, making posts longer than they really need to be. Sorry, that's just how I roll!)


This weekend was my first attempt at a true hybrid cook session, starting a pork butt in a water bath, and moving it to my Pit Barrel Cooker (PBC) to get some bark built up. The object was to have an easily shredded hunk of meat with the flavor profile of smoked, but without having to spend 10-12 hours on the charcoal (and all the worries that entails, with running out of steam during the stall, weather, crutching, family impatience, etc).

For some reason, the stores in my area always have big butts (and I... nah) and this week was no exception. Every piece I picked up was 8 lbs or larger. I ended up grabbing two 9 lb butts, bone in, with the intention of doing one sous vide with my Anova Wifi, and one in the smoker for the entirety. However, it would be a week before I had a chance to cook them, so I tossed them in the freezer in their original cryo-vac bags. I know I could have asked the butchers to cut them up for me, or even do that myself, but I wanted to keep the butts in their original packs.

I decided to just do one as the weekend pulled near. No need to taste-test two different cook sessions side-by-side; I know what my pulled pork tastes like, both in the PBC and in my Weber kettle (which takes about 4-5 hours longer than the PBC). Each has its own unique flavor, with my family hinting on more than one occasion that they do not prefer the pork done in the PBC. The "cooked" vs. "smoked" flavor works great for chicken and beef, but not pork. Me, I'm good with either.

Problem #1: Can you fit a 9 lb. butt into an 11" roll/bag for vacuum sealing?
Answer: Yes, but you have to really want it to fit.

I had decided to take some suggestions to heart and just pull the butt from the freezer and put it into a vacuum-sealed bag with seasoning, without any thawing prior to the big dunk. Little did I know how tight the fit was going to be getting that large a hunk of frozen meat into a bag! I ended up having to shave almost all of the fat cap off the top, and a bit off the side, to get it to JUST slip into the bag. I use a FoodSaver 4840, so 11" bags are the max.

Problem #2: How do you get the seasoning/rub on the meat without scraping it off with the bag?
Answer: You add it post-bagging.

However, with all of the handling that took, and having to shave the frozen fat with a big carving blade, once I got it in I didn't want to think about pulling it out to season it! I ended up just dumping the rub into the bag and working it down into the meat. Pretty funny to watch, I imagine. Thank goodness for silicone gloves!

Seasoning: Meathead's Memphis Dust
Additions: 1 tablespoon kosher salt (couldn't dry-brine, as I froze it in original packaging)

Anova Precision Wifi: 900W
Temp: 165F
Time: 23 hours
Container: Lipavi C20 w/ Anova lid

I've found that the lid doesn't fit really well on the Lipavi container, so I use the same binder clips from my Weber kettle to hold the lid tight. Even though that water was pretty hot all day and night, I think I only lost about a 1/2 pt., if that.





Problem #3: How to rub a giant meat Jell-o mold?
Answer: Very very carefully!

After 23 hours, and letting it sit in the bag for about 40 minutes on the counter (still sealed in its juices), I finally let it out of the bag and patted it dry. Or, I attempted to. You know how people say a butt's done when you can move it and it jiggles? That's got to be the first time I've see a (pork) butt sashay. It was so very done, the bone was practically leaping out! I normally prefer my shredded pork on the drier side, so this was fairly new to me. I never crutch, I take the butts to at least 203F (or probe-tender), and I love bark. I like pulling a butt out of the smoker and showing it to people, having it look like a meat-eor, but then having people taste it and love it. This was so ridiculously juicy, I didn't know if I'd like it at all. On went the rub, along with some kosher salt. Carefully. Oh, so carefully. I must've looked like a perv, as I rubbed this meat lump almost pornographically.

Problem #4: How to transfer a giant Jell-o mold to a smoker?
Answer: Silicone gloves, a cookie rack and sheet pan, and luck.

I very carefully transferred the butt to a cookie rack, thinking I'd just put that into the PBC so the butt wouldn't fall apart and fall into the briquette basket. However, I wasn't thinking straight, or rather I wasn't thinking CURVED. I had a rack of ribs in the cooker already, so I was using my hinged grate. Rectangular cookie rack on a circular half grate = no fit. So I had to very VERY carefully transfer the butt to the PBC's grate. Top on, cook for about four hours.



I was kind of bummed; I just got my new ThermoWorks Smoke, and I didn't get to try out the second probe; I knew the butt was already cooked, so no need to do anything more than monitor the PBC temps.

For some reason, I did NOT get a picture of the pullings. Suffice to say, it was still super moist and juicy after almost five hours in the cooker, with temps settling around 290F in the barrel (not the meat). The meat broke in two pieces as I lifted it out of the cooker with my gloves, and I didn't even bother using my claw shredders to pull it apart; I just used the silicone gloves to pull it apart a bit, and gravity basically did the rest!

Raw weight: 9.12 lbs
Shaved off: about 0.25 lbs
Cooked weight after SV: 5.1 lbs
Cooked weight after PBC: 4.72 lbs

We pulled some out of the freezer last night (I vac-bagged it all immediately in 8oz packets and froze it, no additional liquids added), warmed it up in 160F water for 30 minutes, and it was... really good! The family was really happy with the taste, probably because it still had much of its pork-y goodness intact from the SV, and didn't get the drippings cooked back into it for 12 hours like normal on the PBC. It was more moist, which I think they actually liked better than I did.

I didn't get as much bark as I had hoped; it just didn't get enough time in the PBC to firm up, with so much moisture trying to come out of the butt.

So I'm kind of torn with this process. On the one hand, it's awesome to be able to put a butt in the PBC and have it ready to pull 4-5 hours later! Timing-wise, that's a huge plus, and one I'd actually hoped would be the case. It's almost the reason I bought the Anova.

On the other hand, to me, the flavor wasn't what I was expecting, but it still kicks most other pulled pork's behind that I've tasted over the past few years, and I think I'd still put it up against most competition-grade cooks. I worried that the size of the butt, plus cooking it from frozen, wouldn't break down fully by 24 hours in the SV. That turned out to be a non-issue. As I said, it was wiggling and jiggling like Jell-o when I pulled it at 23 hours!

I would think twice about doing this again without dry-brining the butt before freezing it. I do feel this was something the meat was missing in the final product. I also think I'd up the level of sugars in the rub, to have it caramelize quicker in the cooker. But overall, this was a SUCCESS.

Rating my own pulled pork (not others'):
Family: 8.5 out of 10
Me: 7 out of 10, maybe 7.5

[Spinaker]

Awesome write up Brian. You have inspired me to try this. I am going to dry brine the night before putting it into the bag. I think I am going to give this a run in my Kamado and see how works.
I think it was a good call to add your rub to the meat before putting it in the PBC.

Hats off to you for being adventurous and wanting to try new approaches and ideas. That is what this place is all about. Thanks for the great write up as well.

[dtassinari]

I did a SV-then-kettle butt a couple of days ago. I have a couple of suggestions, if I may:

• You should look into chilling the meat completely before putting it in your smoker. First of all you can leave the cooked butt in the fridge in the bag for a few days without loss of quality, so it's more flexible. Also, smoking from cold gets you a better smoke ring and doesn't dry out the meat as much: you can just leave it in the smoker for 2-3 hours (and up to 5-6, really) to develop bark and to heat it through to at least 60 C / 140 F.
• Instead of dumping the contents of the bag down the drain, you can simmer it to reduce it and mix it back in with the pulled pork! Extra gelatin and extra fat making it super juicy (You really need to reduce it, though, because as it comes out of the bag it's way too runny.)
• As a plus, once the meat cools all the way down it's MUCH easier to handle and rub.
• If you want to be OCD about it, once the "bag juice" cools down it's easy to separate the fat from the liquid, reduce the liquid to taste and only add back as much fat as you like. If you're opening a hot bag, you can still decant it, but it's much more of a hassle.

I should have taken pictures...

[T-bone]

Great advice, as always, thanks!!!

[abandonedbrain]

Spinaker Thanks, but that was J. Kenji's idea: http://www.seriouseats.com/2016/07/f...-shoulder.html and I totally agree with it. The butt came out of the bag smelling wonderful!

dtassinari I thought about chilling the meat, as cold damp meat attracts more smoke. I also thought about adding a tiny amount of Prague Powder #2 to help with the "smoke" ring, but I felt that five hours on the cooker should give me that nice pink, as that's normally happening in the first few hours (according to Meathead's book). And it did look nice, so I'm OK with it. Plus I'm impatient.

You're spot-on wrt the contents being dumped. I felt SO guilty doing that; there must have been a good two cups of liquid or more. Hopefully the buggers in my septic tank are enjoying it! Next time, I'll do exactly that, reduce it and use it (likely will dump it in the shredding pan so it gets evenly distributed in the packets). Thanks!

[Spinaker]

Right, but you took the initiative to actually do it. And that is worth saluting.

[EdF]

Great story! Did you add the SV juices back in when you pulled it?

I did this on a pair of picnics 2-3 weeks back. About 18 hours at 160, chilled, then smoked 4 or so hours in the KBQ. Added the SV juices when I pulled and packed it. Good!

I passed a few bags of it to my daughter and BF, and to my brother and SO yesterday, so we'll get some outside feedback.

[abandonedbrain]

Nope, the juices went down the drain without me thinking about how much was actually in the bag! But I don't think it was hurting at all because of the lack of juices... it was still a very moist pull, more than I've ever had.

[kmhfive]

Excellent experiment! Thanks for the details and the story. I may try this with a half-butt (since I don't have a vacuum sealer, yet).

[abandonedbrain]

Yeah, the ziplock bag way is a great way to start, but I don't know if even freezer bags would hold up to 165F for 24 hours without springing a seal leak. Plus I like to buy, vac-seal and freeze meat BEFORE cooking. Worth the price.

[fzxdoc]

Thanks for the great writeup, abandonedbrain .

I found with pastrami that I had a better bark if I chilled the bagged meat in an ice bath for an hour or so, took it out, patted it dry, added the rub, and put it, uncovered, in the fridge overnight. That way I had delicious-tasting bark that stuck to the meat. Just my two pennies' worth...

Kathryn

[abandonedbrain]

I would agree with that method except I'm really looking for LESS hassle, and our fridge is always so full... I like that I can go from freezer to bath to smoker to pulling with fairly low effort, and the family STILL loved it.

[fzxdoc]

That's all that counts, abandonedbrain --a happy family and a happy cook.

[RonB]

A very enjoyable write up.

[carlscan26]

Great write up - not too much detail at all 😜

[T-bone]

Super write up...thanks! This one is going in the SV bookmark file.

[abandonedbrain]

Thank you!

[martybartram]

One more tip, tie that butt up after it has been SV and before it goes on the smoker.

[abandonedbrain]

Don't think I didn't wish I'd done that! There was absolutely no way that would've helped here, though; that string would have cut right through the meat, it was so tender. I would've needed one of those net sacks to keep it intact. Hmm...

[Skip]

Thank you for the great post. I will be printing this for my SV cookbook notes. Good Job!

[vandy]

I have done 2 butts so far with the SV. Both times I injected the meat with Butcher BBQ open pit injection then dry brined for 24 hours, after that I seasoned with MMD then put it in the freezer to freeze them solid so it would be easier to slide them into the vacuum bags. After vacuum sealing them I put them back in to the freezer. I think it was about a month later on each occasion when I actually cooked the butts. I put them in the SV bath straight out of the freezer at 155 degrees for 36 hours. When I removed them from the water bath they went in to a cooler with half water and half ice for 1 hour then in to the fridge until I was ready to add some smoke from the cooker which was within 24 hours. Each time I put the butt in my Lang smoker at around 250 degrees for 4 to 5 hours. In both cases the butts had a really good smoke flavor and were very tender and juicy, I also saved the purge from the bag and warmed that on the stove and added it back to the finished product. Both times these were the best pork butts that I have done so far, the only thing I noticed is that the SV bath seems to amp up the flavor from the rub and the injection so for next time I think I am going to try one without the injection or maybe just inject with some apple juice or something like that.

[EdF]

Thanks for the info on your experiences - I'm sure we'll be able to benefit from them!

[abandonedbrain]

Lessons learned after thinking on it a bit longer:

1) The whole water bath setup is going to move to the garage next time. My Anova does have a whiney top-end noise, and coupled with my increasingly bad tinnitus I couldn't watch TV, read, etc. while it was chugging away in the kitchen (we have a single greatroom with kitchen/dining area/living room, with hardwood floors and a cathedral ceiling, quite echoey). I've heard other SV units, and they all have that same noise way up in the upper range of human hearing (my dog's not a fan, either), so I'm just very sensitive to it is all. Other people may not have a single problem with this. {shrug}

2) Gotta keep that purge! I'll reduce it next time, and mix it in with some BBQ sauce and add it to the bags of pullings. I figure per 8 oz bag I'll add a couple of teaspoons of the mixture. Not for added moisture, but for flavor. It's not really missing flavor, but more can't hurt!

3) Find a way to tie it up. A few wrappings of butcher's twine wouldn't have held this puppy together, but maybe one of those butcher's net bags would. My only concern THEN would be: will the bark rip off when I pull the net off? I'm thinking of something like this material: https://www.waltonsinc.com/polyester...eat-netting-20

4) Make a custom-shaped cookie cooling rack (especially if I don't do #3). With the split-grate setup in the PBC going (to maximize my use of all that charcoal, I ripped a rack of STL ribs), there's no room for a rectangular-shaped cooling rack to fit. But I could easily buy a large one (that's using the same 1/2" square grid) and trim it into a semi-circular shape to fit on the half-grate. This would make carrying a loosey-goosey butt out to the PBC much easier.

5) Cut the meat in half before freezing! This was one of my "biggest" issues, and just cutting the butt in half would have made things so much easier.

6) Dry brine the meat before freezing. I believe this would've added just a bit more flavor to the finished product. I personally felt like it could have been just a touch more salty (and maybe it was lacking salty flavor because it held so much moisture compared to my normal 12-15 hour smoker-only cooks). Next time I'll dry brine, set it aside in the fridge for a day, then add the rub and vac-seal and freeze. That way I can go from freezer to water bath in one quick step.

7) Bring the temp of the bath down. Like I said, it was jiggling like Jell-o after 23 hours of 165F SV cooking. I think I'd like to try it again at about 158F for 24 hours on a smaller chunk of meat. That way, when it comes out it'll still have a good portion of its fats/collagen broken down, but may be a bit "stiffer" for shredding. It just seemed way too... mushy? My tastes run toward a drier pulled pork, so I'm not sure this would work, but I'm willing to try. FOR SCIENCE!

And thanks to everyone commenting above. Great ideas, and great feedback!

EDIT: OH, I thought of one more thing:

8) Find a good waterproof weight BEFORE cooking! That meat, as it thawed, wanted to bloat up in the bag, and there was a significant air bubble I had to fight all session long. I couldn't find anything which was small enough to fit in the bath with the lid on, heavy enough to hold the butt under, and waterproof so it wouldn't rust. I ended up getting somewhat lucky: I used the IKEA expandable pot holder I use for stacking multiple small cuts like chicken or pork chops, and tipped it on its side to act as a kind of grabber. It held MOST of the bag down; a two-handled apple corer (stainless) held the rest and JUST fit under the lid. That, plus clamping the lid on with binder clips, kept the meat submerged. But what a pain!

[vandy]

I cook my pork butts in a modified 28 qt cooler and use this to hold the bags with the meat in it down.

https://www.amazon.com/LIPAVI-Rack-Model-Steel-Square-Inch-Adjustable-Collapsible/dp/B00PKGBMBA/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1519495432&sr=8-1&keywords=sous+vide+cooking+rack