Food Safety Post Sous Vide and Chill

[smarks112]

So I know when normally cooking meats like brisket, there is the danger zone of avoiding sub 140 for more than 4 hours. How does this work after a 24h Sous vide followed by a ice bath and smoking and serving the next day? Do the same rules apply or does it change at all?

[Donw]

The ice bath is going to quickly take it back into the lower safety zone of below 40F. Next day when you smoke the chili the cooking process will raise you above the danger zone before the 4 hour limit. I always reheat to a minimum of 165F which is the instant kill temperature for bacteria.

[rickgregory]

As I understand it you want to avoid having food in the 40-140 range for a total of more than 4 hours. What you describe should do that IF:

1) the post SV chill is rapid. Use ice in water and get the SV meat down to or under 40 within 20-40 mins.
2) The next day smoke is dealing with meat that has been pasteurized and left in the vacuum bag. Effectively nothing in there is a risk. In fact, it's less of a risk than taking uncooked meat and smoking it as the uncooked meat is NOT pasteurized.

The SV bath itself pasteurizes the meat (remember, pasteurization is a combination of time and temp not just temp. Bacteria die above 130F, just slowly). It might seem counter-intuitive - "but it's under 140!!" but there's a difference between being at 135 in a room temp environment and slowly cooling vs being at 135F and having heat continually applied (under vacuum).

[smarks112]

Next day question - followed all that to the letter. What are the rules that apply when throwing on smoker cold the next day and serving?

[rickgregory]

smarks112 - as above. There's no worry. I mean, you toss raw meat on a smoker, right? And it's not pasteurized. PS: I see below your question is whether you need to get to and hold it above 140. No, assuming you're smoking to a temp and then serving. I wouldnt want the meat in the smoker at, say, 130F for hours, but that's almost impossible to do anyway, so you should be OK

[Troutman]

Short answer is food safety is food safety so yes it applies. But what you describe is indeed being safe. You sous vide something and it's presumably been cooking in the safe zone (which is time AND temperature) then you ice bath it quickly to get it below 40*F or back into a safe zone for storage. You refrigerate it until you're ready to reheat (in your smoker) and all is well. Does that answer your question?

[smarks112]

Thanks!

Clarifier… I did all of that properly… now it is cook day. I put cold Sous vide hunk of meat onto the smoker. Do I need to take it past 140 and keep it there when reheating? When serving, same question?

[shify]

smarks112 - no, assuming you are serving it right away after you smoke/re-heat.

Its more for when stuff is sitting on the counter for some time - don't let it drop below 140 and sit there for a while

[Jerod Broussard]

If holding food for hours, either keep it above 140 or keep it below 40.

[smarks112]

Final products! Thanks all.

[T-bone]

According to CREA, step chilling is the preferred method of cooling sous vide foods. Step chilling is process of gently cooling food that will optimize the food’s juiciness, flavor and texture.

CREA is the research academy, founded by Dr. Bruno Goussault whom is widely accredited as the founder of sous vide cooking.

https://polyscienceculinary.com/blogs/news/sous-vide-chilling-and-storage-guidlines

[fracmeister]

That is interesting. I have always dumped the pouches into an ice bath with salt added in order to cool as rapidly as possible! This method has several extra steps and perhaps the result is better. I will check with a few steaks.

[T-bone]

fracmeister I started using this after learning about the method a couple of years ago at a sous vide conference. We've been very happy with the results. One of the benefits I like is that my ice baths work quicker and use less ice.

[WayneT]

That’s great info there. I’ve never been able to chill a large piece of meat from 135F+ to 41F- in an ice bath in 30-40 mins. I’ve gotten it down to 70F+/- within 30 mins which is within the CREA guidelines. I like the extra steps to help move the core temp down slowly to 41F- but within the 4-6 hour window. I guess I can return all those emetics I bought.

[briano52]

Before I got my Kat vault smoker, I did a lot of briskets on my PK 360 after a sous vide cook. I did the full packer brisket in the SV for about 24hrs at 145. Sometimes I put the still vacuum sealed Brisket in the fridge to cool for a couple of days and then smoke on the PK to an internal temp of 165 or more. Other cooks I did the SV to 145 for 24 hours and then put the still warm meat on the PK at about 250 ambient and took the meat up to an internal of 203. This latter method produced a very good brisket, tender, moist and a medium smoke flavor.

I use charcoal with oak chunks. Either way, I got safe meat. If you don't have the time or cooker to do a 10-12 hour smoke, the SV method works great and cuts down the time on the smoker that requires more attention. Three hours or so on the smoker after the SV will give you a nice smoke ring, medium smoke flavor, moist meat and a nice bark. Don't over smoke the meat, you want all the flavors in balance, the beef, smoke and the rub on the bark.

I now do my brisket in the Kat Vault for 10 hours or so. Internal temp of 203. It comes out just wonderful but not all that much different than the SV followed by 3-4 hours on the PK set for smoking. And I should mention that the Kat vault runs almost by itself with the Thermowerks Billows. The PK is fantastic griller but a high maintenance smoker.

Let me know how your SV cooks go. the SV is a great tool. I haven't used it for fish yet but I want to learn how to do that.