Emulsification issue with my Gumbo and Grok's response

[hoovarmin]

I posted this gumbo that I made tonight in the latest iteration of SUWYC and asked about the lack of emulsification.



I went to Grok and asked what might cause that, and got this response:

"
If your roux didn't fully emulsify with the stock when making gumbo, several factors could be at play:

1. Temperature Difference:
   • If the stock was significantly colder than the roux, the rapid cooling could cause the roux to clump instead of blending smoothly. Ideally, both should be at similar temperatures, with the stock being hot when you add it to the roux.
2. Adding Stock Too Quickly:
   • Pouring in the stock too fast can lead to the roux not having enough time to incorporate properly. Instead, you should whisk the stock into the roux gradually, in small amounts at first, ensuring each addition is well incorporated before adding more.
3. Insufficient Whisking:
   • Not whisking vigorously enough or long enough can result in uneven mixing. Continuous, vigorous stirring or whisking is necessary, especially right after adding the initial liquid to the roux.
4. Roux Quality:
   • If the roux was not cooked properly (either undercooked where the flour taste remains or overcooked where it starts to burn), it might not blend well. A well-cooked roux should be smooth and have a uniform color.
5. Roux Consistency:
   • If the roux was too thick or too thin, it could affect emulsification. A roux that's too thick might not mix well, while one that's too thin might not have enough binding power.
6. Fat Type:
   • Using a fat that doesn't emulsify well with water-based liquids can cause issues. Butter can sometimes separate, especially if clarified, but vegetable oil or lard is often recommended for roux due to their emulsifying properties with stock.
7. Overcooking the Roux:
   • If the roux was cooked to a very dark stage, it has less thickening power and might not emulsify as effectively with liquid.
8. Ratio Issues:
   • An incorrect ratio of roux to liquid might lead to clumping or separation. Too much roux can make the gumbo too thick or clumpy, while too little might not thicken or blend properly.
9. Stock Composition:
   • If your stock has a high fat content or includes ingredients that don't mix well with roux (like certain oils or fats), this can interfere with emulsification.

Solutions for Next Time:

• Heat Consistency: Ensure both roux and stock are hot.
• Slow Integration: Add stock slowly, whisking constantly.
• Vigorous Whisking: Whisk thoroughly to avoid lumps.
• Check Roux: Make sure your roux is well-cooked but not burnt.
• Experiment with Fats: Try different fats to see what works best for you.
• Correct Ratios: Stick to recommended ratios or adjust based on experience.

If you encounter the issue mid-preparation, you can try blending the mixture with an immersion blender to break down any clumps or adding a bit more liquid gradually while whisking.

I heated my stock, but may have added it too quickly. But I know that my roux had too much oil and ghee, so I'm thinking this is the culprit. Anyway, Grok is a great tool for

cooks.

[LA Pork Butt]

Dry roux mixed in water and added to the gumbo is less tricky. In your case I tend to agree that your best guess is added too quickly.

[texastweeter]

Try using 100% veg oil with no ghee. Ghee will often seperate. Also anytime I'm doing something like this, I add my hot stock in at least 4 batches. Hope this helps. Oh and you can cheat a bit by adding a bit of mustard powder to the roux and whisking it in before adding the stock.

[Panhead John]

Yeah, I’ve never used butter or ghee for a roux, I’ve always used canola or vegetable oil and sometimes add a little bacon grease.

[Panhead John]

It looks great Dave, but how did it taste? Can you give us more detail on how you made the roux and what you did after it was done? How much flour, oil and ghee did you use? I’m thinking the ghee was the culprit. Not sure I’d rely on an answer from AI.

[hoovarmin]

Thanks John. It tasted phenomenal. I pan fried chicken legs dredged in flour seasoned with Creole seasoning that I made in peanut oil , then used that oil to make the roux. I added more flour at a ratio or 1:1, or so I thought, and it seemed dry. So I added a bit of ghee, about 2 Tbsp, then cooked, constantly stirring, and adjusting the heat from medium to medium low as needed for 40 minutes. I think that the addition of the ghee was a panic decision that in hindsight wasn't ideal.

[Panhead John]

If it tasted phenomenal thats all that matters! The hell with me and my dumbass recommendations….😂

[hoovarmin]

I like your recommendations PJ!

[TripleB]

Bummer. I had that happen once. Don't remember the particulars though. Great color on your Gumbo.

[hoovarmin]

Thanks. I'm being really anal about it - truth is, it was fantastic.

[fzxdoc]

Wow, no wonder it tasted great--you started with such a flavorful oil. Brilliant idea that I may have to swipe from you.

I've never had a ghee base split, and I use ghee a lot--but not for gumbo. Like Panhead John , I usually like to start with a flavorless oil for gumbo roux.

BTW you got great color in that gumbo. Stop worrying, enjoy the leftovers, and go ghee-less next time.

Kathryn

[hoovarmin]

Kathryn, I've made roux in the past using only ghee and it emulsified beautifully. Chef Jean Pierre used ghee exclusively to make his roux for gumbo. Chef Paul, who used peanut oil, taught Chef Jean his gumbo method and Chef Jean altered it to use ghee. I'm not convinced the ghee was the problem. I think the problem was at the opposite end of the wooden spoon from the pot, lol.

[fzxdoc]

Thanks for the clarification (pun intended), hoovarmin , on using ghee as a base for roux. I use ghee so much of the time that I'm glad to hear that it might not be the culprit here. I'll have to hunt down Chef Jean Pierre's video on making gumbo. I always enjoy watching that guy cook.

K.

[hoovarmin]

fzxdoc here ya go! https://chefjeanpierre.com/recipes/mains/gumbo-recipe/

[58limited]

Its hard for me to tell in the photo but do you think there may be too much oil? It might separate if there is. However, I'd eat the hell out of that - it looks great!

I generally use lard and have never had a problem with the roux. I have fried the chicken and used the fond and oil for roux as well - delicious! I got that method from Paul Prudhomme.

[hoovarmin]

Dave, I think you are correct. Too much oil for sure. The method I used was also from chef Paul.

[StrikeBBQ]

Instead of ghee - try a combo of duck fat and peanut oil.