Carne Crosta Replica Odyssey

[BFlynn]

I'll have another post about the coffee, but long story short, a guy I knew from college has started a coffee roasting business, in addition to all his other jobs.
I've found it to be damn fine coffee. So BBQ rubs, with coffee have been rattling around at the back of my mind for a while.

Then it came to my attention that you can't get Carne Crosta anymore, which is a shame.
I've got about half a bag left of Carne Crosta left. Admittedly, it isn't fresh, and maybe has lost bit of punch, but at least the Old Carne Crosta (OCC) is a baseline for comparison. I hope to get a Replica Carne Crosta (RCC) figured out.

I looked at a bunch of different coffee beef rub recipes - compared amount of coffee to amount of sugar, other spices, etc. Compared those to the ingredient list of OCC, which doesn't give amounts, but at least has to list the ingredients in order of ammount....

And then I figured, just start simple, and adjust. I would love feedback, as this evolves, and will continue to update.

So this is my starting point - mostly based on @wrgilb 's recipe.
This is all in TBSP - but you could use tsp, gallons, barrels, Coombs, Hopus Feet, etc .

ground espresso beans		3
terlingua chili powder		3
black pepper		2
cocoa powder		1
granulated garlic		1
ground cumin		0.5
brown sugar		0.5
ground fennel seed		0.5
ground allspice		0.125

I've found 2 grams of beans to be about equal to 1 tsp. 6 grams = 1 TBSP
This is the coffee that I used. It's a dark/espresso roast, 100% brazilian coffee. I used a fine grind. I'd do medium next time.
I don't know if the kind of cocoa powder makes a huge difference, but I used ghirardelli.



This pic as RCC on the left and OCC on the right.
The OCC is lighter, but it also has salt in it, and ground mushrooms - which I haven't accounted for.
OCC has small amounts of: yellow mustard, coriander, lime juice, celery, "spices", and matlodextrim , not included in the RCC.

Tasting both the rubs, on their own, the OCC has an earthiness to it, that RCC doesn't have. I figure that's from the ground mushrooms.
The coffee notes are spot on. OCC lists espresso roasted brazillian coffee... and that's the kind of coffee used here.
You can also taste the difference in including the salt. But I'll get to that in a bit.

The OCC is also ground coarser, but it's hard to tell from this picture.

I tried this out on an SVQ picahna yesterday, and am pleased with the results.
My picahna isn't nearly as good as Troutman 's, but here are some pics. One half has OCC, the other has RCC.








Of course, testing out a Replica Carne Crosta didn't occure to me, until I had already dry brined my picahna.
The half with OCC, is definitely double salted.

Visually, I couldn't tell a difference in the crust between RCC and OCC.

For taste, the coffee flavor definitely came through on both, and was the same. In fact, the only difference, I could tell, in taste, was the salt. Both were good. I think, as it stands, this would work as a substitute for Carne Crosta.... especially, if you didn't have the original side by side.

Next versions -
V2 - will inlcude salt for a more even comparison.
V3 will incorporate 1 kind of dried mushrooms.

Any suggestions on things to tweek, or general improvements would be appreciated.

[BFlynn]

This is the original list of ingredients, from the Carne Crosta packaging -

Brazilain Coffee

Sea Salt

Garlic

Ancho Chilies

Guajillo Chilies

chipotle Chilies

paprika Chilies

Black Pepper

Ground Shitake Mushrooms

Ground Porcini Musrooms

Onion

Cane Sugar

Yellow Mustard

Coriander

Lime Juice

Celery

Spices

Matlodextrim

[Donw]

Great job so far. Hope you nail it.

[fzxdoc]

The original Carne Crosta had porcini and shitake mushroom powder in it (a great source of umami, FWIW).

It's good to know that you're planning on adding at least one mushroom powder to your next batch. As noted, that should add a the measure of earthiness that you mentioned was missing for the first go-round.

It will be fun to follow your progress.

The OCC is such a great rub with more nuanced ingredients than, say, Spiceology's Cowboy Crust, also a coffee-chile rub. I hope your next effort moves you closer to the real deal. Good luck!

Kathryn

[BFlynn]

I think the my mushrooms are the biggest difference. I'm also trying to keep this as simple as possible

Me every limited reading, so far, it sounds like porcini are the real star, but shitake are a less expensive substitute with less earthiness.
So I'll see how I can get just porcinis.
And then how different shitakes are.

I'm not smart enough to change more than one variable at a time

[Potkettleblack]

For the mushrooms, I would start with dried mushrooms, and grind them. To my palate, shiitake have a bitterness to them that I don’t care for as much. Porcinis are pretty basic mushrooms, ATC.

if you were inclined to add the lime juice, I have some TrueCirtus powders that I use to add some citrus flavor to rubs (or beverages).

[Donw]

Here is where I get my dried mushrooms and ground powders:

https://www.mounthopewholesale.com/products/mushrooms/

[BFlynn]

Thanks!!

[SheilaAnn]

Donw beat me to it. At work, we use Mount Hope for lots of ingredients.

[hoovarmin]

Is the OCC no longer manufactured?

[Donw]

If I remember correctly they stated that during Covid they could not source materials of the quality they wanted. They asked for final orders and processed until their supplies were out. I ordered 6 bags of CC plus a few other mixes to store in refrigeration when I heard.

[BFlynn]

Donw do you still have any of those bags?

I've got half of an old one left.

But if I get close, maybe I can send you some.of the clone for an independent comparison

[Donw]

BFlynn I do have several bags left and would be glad to taste test. However I warn you that I’m not that discerning or sophisticated when it comes to subtle tastes. My tastebuds stopped maturing around 3rd grade.🙂

[fzxdoc]

I have purchased both porcini powder and portobello powder (and Worcestershire powder) from Amazon and use them in my go-to Umami Mix that I learned about here on The Pit from wrgilb . Bill upped my flavor game with that post, for sure, and I'll always be grateful for that. Thanks, Bill!

It's called the Fifth Dimension Umami Blend from the Wicked Good Burgers cookbook, and I add it to marinara sauce, ragu, chili, stews, ethnic foods, all sorts of things. I use it where I use fish sauce or tomato paste, for example for upping the umami. In my kitchen, it's not just for burgers.

If interested, you can see the actual recipe from the cookbook and some other flavor enhancing burger toppings from the WGB cookbook here.

But I digress. I'm wondering if adding portobello powder along with the porcini powder will add just the right amount of mellowing, BFlynn . I'm with Potkettleblack in that shitake powder is more bitter to my taste buds so I use it sparingly.

I have just noticed that my post is falling into the "too many cooks" category, so I'll stop.

As I said in an earlier post, enjoy your journey to RCC nirvana.
I'll wait on the sidelines, somewhat patiently.


Kathryn

[BFlynn]

No such thing as "too many cooks" on this board.

Definitely trying out that Umami bomb.
I think I actually bought a jar of something called that and it got hidden at the back of a cabinet somewhere

[fzxdoc]

I just re-did the link for the Wicked Good Burger recipes, RonB. Then I refreshed the page before I tested it. It worked fine for me. Give it a go and let me know.

BFlynn , I used to use Trader Joe's Umami Blend before wrgilb turned me on to the Fifth Dimension recipe. The Trader Joe's product had a lot of salt, as I recall. Just looked it up--24% of the sodium daily value per teaspoon. There's no salt in the Fifth Dimension Umami Blend recipe. Maybe you were thinking of the TJ product?

K.

[RonB]