"Spaghetti sauce" thoughts.

[Mosca]

This is something I’ve mused about for a long time. I’m talking about Italian red sauce here.

You go to an Italian restaurant, there’s basically marinara, meat sauce, and bolognese. Yeah, you got your cream sauce, your blush, clam, vodka, arribiata, etc, but "red sauce" is marinara, bolognese, or meat/Sunday sauce. You look on the internet for sauce recipes, you really get varying proportions of tomatoes, garlic, and/or onions, plus minor tweaks.

The way my mom made it, the way HER mom made it (Croatian, not Italian), and the way I make it, and the way I think a lot of people make it, is to start with a basic marinara and then add ground beef, mushrooms, green peppers, onions AND garlic, and just about any kitchen sink thing that sounds like it would taste good: sausage, Parmesan, whatever. Red wine. Balsamic. I don’t use carrots or onions, but someone else might. It would work.

Yeah, I know, "cacciatore". But not really. No olives or capers, no chicken. It goes a different direction. And when I think cacciatore, I don’t think fine dice, I think big pieces of stuff.

And carrying this farther, I have NEVER come across a restaurant that makes a pasta sauce like this. And I’ve eaten a lot of pasta in restaurants.

What sauce would this be, if it had a name? (Maybe it does, I don’t know.) Dump sauce? American sauce? Whatever it is, it is freakin’ great. I’ve made marinara, bolognese, meat sauce, and some others. And every time I taste it, I think, "This needs… green peppers. And mushrooms, that would be good. A splash of balsamic for sweetness…." I mean, that’s what makes my spaghetti sauce MINE.

Anyone else?

[smokenoob]

I call that "Smokenoob sauce" cause that’s how I make it to!
I like mine with hot Italian meatballs to!

Maybe I should call it Mom’s sauce cause that’s how she made it to!

[Mosca]

Yeah! That’s exactly what I mean! EVERYONE does it, but nobody does it in a restaurant! It isn’t classic. But NOBODY would do it if they didn’t like it better than just a plain marinara or meat sauce!

[rickgregory]

I think of red sauce as a base.

To me, red sauce starts with some form of pork belly diced and sauteed. Add garlic, deglaze with white wine, add S&P, oregano, tomatoes. Then customize.... for example, I don't think I'd like green peppers in it generally, but can see if for some applications. Balsamic? Sure, why not? Mushrooms? Yep. But I like to start with a pretty simple base, make a big pot, then portion. Pull some, customize for what I want, rinse and repeat.

[58limited]

That does look good. My sauce is more traditional restaurant-style but it is a good base to work with depending on my mood. I don't like mushrooms too much and rarely use them in spaghetti sauce. Green peppers when I'm in the mood otherwise its onions, garlic, oregano (lots - I like oregano), and basil. Red pepper flakes for a little kick. I'm usually making meatballs so no ground beef or sausage most times. Otherwise I use a 50/50 blend of ground beef and Italian sausage to make bolognese. Not opposed to fine diced carrots.

[texastweeter]

Newman's Own calls is Sockarooni sauce, but yeah I make "spaghetti sauce" that way too.

[WillTravelForFood]

is THAT what Sockarooni sauce is? we were always wondering...

[texastweeter]

Yup, everything but the kitchen sink. WillTravelForFood

[Stuey1515]

Give some beef cheeks some smoke, then braise them until they pull apart in a garlic laden version of this sauce, verra narce!!

[CaptainMike]

I like to use poblano or Jimmy Nardello peppers and always add a pinch or 3 of ground smoked cayenne. Gotta have onions, too. And to me, Marcela Hasan's Beef Bolognese is the apex of Italian red sauces, however, I think some shrooms would be pretty good in it as well.

[58limited]

Poblano would be good, I often sub it for bell pepper. It takes King Ranch chicken over the top (along with chipotle Rotels).

[Santamarina]

I don’t know what I’d call that, but it sounds good. I love chili. I also like the version with tomato sauce and beans…I don’t call it chili, but I like to eat it! "Chili stew" is the name I use so as not to offend the purist in me.

When it comes to Italian I’m picky. My Ex-FiL was a NY Italian and was a great cook. His father came to the states as a child from Italy. Since I liked to cook he shared the family recipes with me (something he hadn’t done with his own children!). In turn I shared some of my personal recipes that the family liked.

Sauce was very simple. Tomatoes, basil, garlic, and salt. To that you could add various kinds of meat/meatballs/sausage and it cooked all day. No oregano. Never oregano.

My Ex used to make a bell pepper lasagne. The sauce used bells for the base instead of tomatoes. It was a delicious twist on a classic. Your sauce with bell peppers added sounds like a nice blend of the two - though I’m still not sure what to call it.

My mom used to put mushrooms in her sauce (she’s not Italian!), but I was never a fan. I love mushrooms on burgers, steaks, and pizza…but not in sauce.

[Mosca]

Often, when I’m making it, I haven’t decided whether it is going to be chili or spaghetti! Basil and marjoram makes it spaghetti, cumin and ancho makes it chili.

[fzxdoc]

That's pretty much how I make it as well, except no green peppers or mushrooms. Like you, along with the basic marinara ingredients (with appropriate spices) I include onions, garlic, basil, diced and rendered pancetta, browned ground beef (or chopped smoked chuck), smoked sliced Hot Italian sausage, a little soy sauce or fish sauce, a few glugs of red wine, and some homemade beef broth. Reduce the heck out of it until it is rich and thick. Serve with plenty of parmesan available for topping.

Kathryn

[CaptainMike]

Oh yeah, what time's dinner!!?

[Mosca]

The green peppers are what makes it into the way my mom made it… actually, she started with a huge jar of Ragu, what with 6 kids plus Dad. Then she added everything else! For me, as cheap as Ragu is, plum tomatoes are cheaper yet.

[jlazar]

Maybe you could call it Croatian Chili or Croatian Red. It looks very good. Can you post your recipe? I would like to compare to my marinara and see what changes I might want to try.

[Mosca]

I don’t have a recipe. I just stand at the counter and make it. I’ll post what I did today.

[jlazar]

Thanks

[WillTravelForFood]

From this post back in January, which may be pertinent to the conversation.

https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/forum/the-pit-mastery-program/porknography-ribs-pulled-pork-ham-etc/1163299-baby-backs-vs-spare-ribs-which-to-choose?p=1164496#post1164496

we've attempted a version RAO'S SUNDAY GRAVY. Been pretty happy with many of Rao's recipes.

This one asks for... 1 lb steak, 1 lb pork tenderloin, 1 lb sausage, 1 lb beef braciole (see *other* recipe for this, it's terrific!), 14 meatballs. The braciole by itself is its own meal.

The recipe on the website is different from their cookbook, as the website uses jar sauce instead of making your own

https://www.raos.com/recipes/sunday-gravy/

[Troutman]

To me marinara has always been the mother sauce. What you describe and make is what I call spaghetti sauce. Whenever the kids want spaghetti, that’s what we make. Sometimes it’s with Italian sausage sometimes it’s just with ground chuck.

[RonB]

I use my paternal Grandmother's recipe. Sounds great until you read that she was born around 1880 in rural MS, and, as far as I know, was never more than 50 miles from where she grew up. And she was not Italian.

Her sauce was made with tomatoes, onions, green peppers, oil, ground beef, Italian seasoning, oregano, garlic powder, S&P, and chili powder. (Yes - I know, but that's what I grew up on.) I still make it with some tweaks because it reminds me of family. I also make a number of different sauces too depending on mood or if I see something interesting.

[jecucolo]

I used to watch my grandmother cook. I loved to be with her. Her sauce usually started with frying meatballs. She would also sear a small pork butt. Then she would add a little oil and fry up garlic cloves. Once the garlic was where she wanted it she would add tomato paste and fry that up. She would pass the tomatoes Thru a sieve. The pulp was almost dry from all the pushing she did. All this went into a giant pot with the pork. I do remember going to the yard and gathering what I thought was mint but it was probably basil or oregano. That would then cook. Towards the end she added the meatball. Sometimes she added mushrooms if there was no meatballs.
This is how I do it. It wasn’t until I started eating out That I found out there was anything else.

[Mosca]

We had a rocking chair in the corner of the kitchen. I used to sit in it and read while my mom cooked. That was over 50 years ago, it could have been yesterday to me.

[Mosca]

Maybe you could call it Croatian Chili or Croatian Red. It looks very good. Can you post your recipe? I would like to compare to my marinara and see what changes I might want to try.

I don’t really have a recipe, I use whatever. Here’s what I did today.

———

Brown together:

1lb ground beef
1 medium onion diced fine
1/2 large green pepper diced fine
3 large mushrooms diced fine

When that’s looking done add:

3 cloves garlic, minced fine or crushed with a press

When the raw garlic smell goes away, add:

1 cup or so of red wine
1 regular can plum tomatoes
1 small can tomato paste

Bring it back to a simmer. Crush the tomatoes with a potato masher, or take a pair of kitchen shears and clip them up. I’ve used a stick blender in the can before dumping it in, but that makes a mess if you’re not careful.

Add:

1 teaspoon of Italian seasoning, or dried basil, whichever you have
salt to taste
pepper to taste
2 tablespoons balsamic vinegar
As much grated Parmesan as you see fit.

Simmer 20 minutes and adjust the seasonings. More balsamic also adds some sweetness, but if it’s unbalanced toward acid, add some sugar. Be judicious with the sugar, start with 1/2 teaspoon. Sugar can get out of control quickly here. You don’t want sweet, you are just trying to compensate for tomatoes that lack sweetness. Simmer it another 30 minutes or so.

———

That’s what I did today. I actually wound up using 1 teaspoon of sugar, I usually don’t use any… but also I usually use San Marzano tomatoes and this time I didn’t. And I added more balsamic vinegar, that gives it a darker taste. You might want more Italian seasoning. If it’s summer I’ll use fresh basil, and thyme or oregano. Today I only had three mushrooms, if I’d had five I would have used five. I might add artichoke hearts (not marinated), or black olives, or roasted red peppers. The next time I make it I’m going to shred some carrots and add a stalk of celery, and see what happens. But maybe not? If I had sausage I would have probably added some. Well, definitely added some. Oh: I had about an inch of stick pepperoni left from the last pizza, I grated that into it. Sometimes I’ll shred mozzarella on it when serving, but usually I don’t.

So, it’s really just standing in front of the stove and cutting stuff up and making sauce.

[synodog]

I’m the same. I really need to take notes on how I make my red sauce. There have been a few times where I go, "crap, that was great! What did I do and how much and for how long?"