Saucing crispy skin chicken?

[jjdbike]

Hello fellow pit-masters,

Doing a deep dive into smoked bone in skin on whole chickens & calling on those experienced smoking them please. I've seen several schools of thought with barbecued chicken. One, is lower, 325 and below to create bite through skin and not drying the meat (Matt Pittman). Two, hot and fast for crispiest skin (Chuds). Third and the option I like is starting it low (225ish) to lay on some smoke and cook w/out drying, then cranking up (375- 400) to finish and crisp skin (Mad Science BQ). I like that last one. Your thoughts?

This specific post is asking about saucing and the quality of the skin. It would seem logical that if one worked to create crisp skin, it is counter intuitive to glass with sauce that might soften the skin. Serving sauce on the side seems more logical. On the other hand, these is something special in a bird completely glazed in sauce, and caramelized back on the cooker. My question is, does this take the crisp skin, and make it mushy and rubbery? I'm actually considering spacing both side of the patch cocked bird w/ sauce.

This is for a big group. I am planning on doing 3 different styles of birds. 1. just rubbed w/ no sauce, 2. Covered with Alabama white sauce, 3. rubbed w/ Nashville hot rub and dipped in Nashville hot BBQ sauce. I'll provide sweet BBQ sauce on the side for the dry rubbed only birds so the sugar in the sauce doesn't burn.

Thoughts, experiences, suggestions?

Respectfully,
JD

[SheilaAnn]

I vote for #3

[Ace]

+1

[bbqLuv]

Ditto in #3

[N227GB]

I like to pour the warm sauce into a ramekin and serve it alongside the dish.

[Jerod Broussard]

When cooking for groups it's kinda surprising how many people don't really care about crispy skin.

Sauce it and don't worry.

[Ace]

My thought is that once you get the bird up to temp with crispy skin, then adding BBQ sauce at the end, just long enough to set the sauce. The sugar content in bbq sauce will burn if left on too long or set at too high of a temp. Alabama White Sauce would be like a gravy that the bird is dunked in after its up to temp and crispy. After the excess drips off it's plated and served. As always: YMMV.
Good luck and I always enjoy pictures of your cooks.

[fzxdoc]

If you're serving a large group, the skin may soften a bit anyway as the bird parts sit, steaming off the heat as the line of hungry diners to work their way up to the tray.

So I'd say load on the flavor and serve. I think people appreciate moistness and good flavor on a chicken more than crispy skin especially in an event situation. All three of your options sound good. Something for everybody.

Kathryn

[klflowers]

I do all of my spatchcocked chickens at ~275 these days for bite through skin. When I sauce them I sometimes crank the heat up to set the sauce on the "cool" side of the sns - away from the coals. I found that when i do whole birds and shoot for crispy skin, I always dry the breasts out. Every time.

Have you considered pulling one of the birds off the bone and serving it with buns? I know I am all up in your cook uninvited, but you know how we are around here

[jjdbike]

If you're serving a large group, the skin may soften a bit anyway as the bird parts sit, steaming off the heat as the line of hungry diners to work their way up to the tray.

So I'd say load on the flavor and serve. I think people appreciate moistness and good flavor on a chicken more than crispy skin especially in an event situation. All three of your options sound good. Something for everybody.

Kathryn

Thanks Kathryn,

Yes that makes sense. Timing coming off the cooker, short rest and serving in time for crisp skin to soften when serving to a big group, would be a magic trick. People showing up late, chit-chatting, etc, will inevitably need to hold them for some portion of time. I will take you and klflowers advice. Cooking at 275 will not dry out skin or breasts. Breasts take priority. Also agree w/ loading up flavor.

klflowers, epic avatar pic, like a boss! How long would you allow for spatched whole birds at 275?

Ace , For both the Nashville & the Bama White sauce, because it's so thin, was considering double dipping. Dip once, back on cooker for a few to cook in / thicken and adhere, then once more at after cut into parts. That will get the exposed meat areas sauced too. Does that sound like int would work, or is this problematic?

Thanks again everyone!

Will def post pics.

Best regards!
JD

[Ace]

jjdbike
That sounds ok but keep in mind that since the main ingredient is Mayo, a lower temp at that point just to set the sauce would be prudent... 👍

[jjdbike]

Thanks @Ace,
Are you saying that the Mayo based Bama White sauce will burn at 375?

[klflowers]

Thanks. I am pretending to be a boss lol. I am not sure how long it takes, a few hours? I use temp probes. I normally cook whole chickens for me and my son; when i have guests, it is always parts instead of whole. Probably cause I'm afraid of dessert dry breasts

[Duanessmokedmeats]

I like smoking between 325 and 350

[Ace]

jjdbike
I'm thinking that if that sauce is cooked much after first applying it, it may tend to separate and the oil in the mayo might pool on top. I've not tried to keep cooking it after the chicken is dunked only dunk and serve. When Matt Pittman does this he doesn't apply the sauce then continue the cook. So... that's how I've done it. If there is any way to try a small test plate before you commit to it, that might be a good idea...

Edit: I'll try to help by making a small batch of sauce and try it on a pork steak I'm cooking tonight, both sauce and continue the cook and dunk and serve. I post pics tonight for you...

[klflowers]

You are the man

[Ace]

jjdbike

ok, I did a quick test and the results were what I was afraid of. Pork was finished at 145* and the smaller piece was coated and put back on the cooker for 1-2 minutes. The sauce pretty much turned ugly, oily and melted off with very little taste of the sauce. The larger piece was pulled and allowed to cool a little then the sauce was applied as a finishing sauce with lots of flavor and stayed thick. So.. my suggestion is that if you use White Sauce, I would use it as a side dipping sauce. If the sauce is too thick, it can be thinned with a little more vinegar to desired consistency. In Matt's video, the sauce was thicker than he wanted so he thinned with more vinegar. You could also use less Mayo to thin. Hope that helps you decide what works best for you... Cheers...

[texastweeter]

Yeah, cook you meat, then dunk in sauce. Dont try to glaze with white sauce

[jjdbike]

jjdbike

ok, I did a quick test and the results were what I was afraid of. Pork was finished at 145* and the smaller piece was coated and put back on the cooker for 1-2 minutes. The sauce pretty much turned ugly, oily and melted off with very little taste of the sauce. The larger piece was pulled and allowed to cool a little then the sauce was applied as a finishing sauce with lots of flavor and stayed thick. So.. my suggestion is that if you use White Sauce, I would use it as a side dipping sauce. If the sauce is too thick, it can be thinned with a little more vinegar to desired consistency. In Matt's video, the sauce was thicker than he wanted so he thinned with more vinegar. You could also use less Mayo to thin. Hope that helps you decide what works best for you... Cheers...

Wow,
Thanks Ace,
Nothing like a real world experiment.
You most definitely are the man.
I’m super pumped now.
Thanks everyone!
JD

[Brian_M]

klflowers mentioned this above, but I’m going to mention it also. If you’re going to the trouble to spatchcock the birds, maybe think about making a couple more cuts. Split them into quarters. That way you can pull all the white meat when it’s ready but give the dark meat the extra time it needs. The hard part is removing the spine and you’re already doing that. Then just split the breasts and separate the thigh/leg. For me, it’s a little more work in preparation but a lot easier to handle during and after the cook.

Also, others have talked about how normal people aren’t worried (or even aware) of crispy or bite-through skin. “Don’t let perfect become the enemy of very good.”

[Ace]

Well said... 😎

[Mosca]

Nobody understands any more, it won’t matter. They all pick the skin off now.

Just do whatever you want. In fact, the best course of action would be to cook the chicken, then pick off all the crispy skin and eat it yourself. Just remember to use nitrile gloves.

[jjdbike]

klflowers mentioned this above, but I’m going to mention it also. If you’re going to the trouble to spatchcock the birds, maybe think about making a couple more cuts. Split them into quarters. That way you can pull all the white meat when it’s ready but give the dark meat the extra time it needs. The hard part is removing the spine and you’re already doing that. Then just split the breasts and separate the thigh/leg. For me, it’s a little more work in preparation but a lot easier to handle during and after the cook.

Also, others have talked about how normal people aren’t worried (or even aware) of crispy or bite-through skin. “Don’t let perfect become the enemy of very good.”

As much as I wanted to keep it whole to preserve moisture, that makes so much sense.
I can see additional benefits of this, more room for air flow and smoke, easier to move around, faster more even cook. I could also just buy skin on bone in split breasts, drums, and legs to save a couple steps.

Collaboration, share experiences, information and ideas is so helpful and powerful. I love this sight and greatly appreciate all of you.

Thank you all very much!
JD