Sourdough Noob - photo and questions

[radshop]

With advanced training from Professor Youtube, I jumped in to make sourdough this weekend. Overall good, but definitely room for improvement. And that's okay - I'm all about the trial-and-error-and-error-and-error. Obviously there is a lot of variation in the Youtube methods, but what I did was pretty much the Tartine method with my Lodge combo cooker. Bottom line, I like it and both of my teenage sons like it. That matters most. But here's where I would like to get better next time:

• My dough seemed very wet. Following the timing and the number of stretch & folds "by the book," I could tell I still didn't have enough structure and surface tension when I got ready for the initial shaping. By the end of the bench rest, it had flattened a lot. I think maybe what I should have done is continue with more bulk fermentation time and additional stretch and fold. Am I on the right track?
• But instead, I went ahead and tried to shape it and bake it. I think the lack of surface tension might be why I didn't get good oven spring. Yes? No? Maybe? Should I have added more flour? Based on the ratio I thought I was following, It would have been 75% hydration. But compared to the videos I saw, mine seemed wetter.
• The first loaf (shown sliced in the photo) turned out excellent in terms of crust and being cooked through. The second one got a little too dark on top, but on the bottom it burned fast to the the cooker and basically became charcoal. If I want to cook 2 loaves back to back, how do I avoid burning the second one? Seems to me that 500 F is 500 F, regardless of which one is first or second, but I know the real world is not that cut and dried.

[scottranda]

What was your baking method? What was your baking setup (tools)? Covered vs uncovered, etc.

since you’re new to bread, don’t go to 75% hydration yet. Go with 68-70% to begin with.

[scottranda]

How long did you bake? What type of flour?

The only reason why to bump it down to 68-70% is because it’s waaaay easier to learn how to shape.

[RonB]

When the dough looks to wet, it's probably too wet. I would have added more flour. Did you bake on a flat surface or in a container. Wet dough can spread a lot, so I'd recommend baking in the appropriate sized container - CI works well to force the dough to rise up while baking instead of spreading out.

You could have done one or two more folds, but please be careful because it's possible to overproof the dough and it will not rise properly. This is where experience helps - ya need to make enough bread to recognize when it's time to bake. Here is a video on the "finger dent" test for when it's ready to bake:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oAfl1u0fIw

[RonB]

To add - when using youtube, there are more people posting who don't really know what they are doing, so try to go with well know bakers. Three come to mind, but there are a ton. You mentioned Tartine. I would add Ken's Artisan, Cyril Hitz, and Peter Reinhart to your list of sources.

[CaptainMike]

My first thought was overproofing as well, but a lower hydration won't hurt.

[radshop]

RonB and scottranda - thanks for the tips. Here's a little more detail:

• I used 75% King Arthur bread flour and 25% whole wheat
• I was basically trying to copy the Tartine method because I read the book Tartine Bread, and watched this video https://youtu.be/U4dyWZZVeWI - he uses a higher hydration and makes it look really easy, but I can back away from that
• I cooked dutch oven style in my Lodge combo cooker

[RonB]

The video is more advanced than I'd recommend for someone new to baking, and as is common, the experienced baker makes it look much easier than it is. I like Ken Forkish's book "Flour, Water, Salt, and Yeast, (not sure of the order of the words...). Start with some of the easier recipes and work up to the high hydration doughs.

And pull it out of the oven when it looks good. I use a leave in probe to monitor temp, and start looking when it hits ~ 190°. It may go over 200° before it looks good to you.

[Richard Chrz]

I have no advice other then to start writing down all the important details, and in the final notes write a bit about you results. happy fermenting. Lot's of things that Youtube does not cover when it gets into baking percentages, especially room temp, flour temp, the temperature created by the vatious heats that can be put heat out differently (hand, food processer, stand mixer, etc. time that you have, and how you can manipulate the fermentation to the fast or slow, good yeast vs older yeast, the right yeast for the job, when the salt was put in in comparison to starter, etc........ protien in flouw... I'll stop. Enjoy, (sounds like you are) and like also said, enjoy the failure, it means you are trying. Maybe someday I will set up my go pro for a video.

[Thunder77]

Did you autolyze the dough? That is an important step, especially when using whole grain flour. You want the flour to absorb all the moisture. This jump starts gluten formation. I personally started with a 66% hydration dough, until I got more familiar with how it worked. I sometimes also make a round piece of parchment paper to place on the bottom of the dutch oven to prevent sticking.

Do you have a bench scraper? They come in handy for shaping wetter dough.
Make sure you understand that hydration percentage is the weight of water in relation to the total weight of flour:
Example: 750 grams of water to 1000 grams of flour. 750/1000=.750= 75% hydration.

Keep going with the baking. It is very rewarding. Good luck!

[rickgregory]

I'll second the recommendation for Forkish's book (there are YouTube videos from hm too: https://www.youtube.com/user/KensArtisan). A few thoughts on the oven spring issue...

First, it could have overproofed so the yeast didn't have much left.
Second, was the starter active from the start? Sourdough starter takes a while to get to the point where it's ready to back with (though I'd not expect this to have impact on oven spring).

AS well as here, check out http://www.thefreshloaf.com, a site as crazy about baking as this place is about BBQ.

[ofelles]

I have tried baking bread a few years ago mainly Ciabatta and Sour Dough. Had some good results and some not so good. Came to the conclusion that with a Panera Bread close by I'll pass.

I think maybe I gave up to easily; then all this talk about hydration, old yeast vs fresh yeast, room temp, ingredient temp, wet dough, etc. Ouch, it makes my head hurt.

I really admire those of you who have fortitude to stick it out. Please keep posting and I will continue to drool and occasionally dabble in the art form.

[RonB]

Try a no knead recipe something like 300 grams of bread flour, 165 grams water, 1 gram yeast, and 6 grams salt, (this is off the top of my head with the goal of 65% hydration). Mix the dry ingredients, then add the water. Let it sit in the refrigerator 2 - 3 days, then shape, let it rise until it doubles in size,
and bake @ 450 until just past golden brown. Look at several youtube videos on how to shape a round boule. I can give more details if you are interested.

[Thunder77]

"The New Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes a Day" will help you male some of the best and easiest bread you ever had.

[Skip]

You have a very good start at bread baking. Have fun with it and keep practicing. It is very rewarding as you get better at it.

[MBMorgan]

In case you missed it, there is a massive amount of excellent information about baking bread already here in the pit:

THIS ONE started out purely as a "how to bake sourdough" thread ... then quickly morphed into general bread baking.

THIS ONE gives information on (and access to) a spreadsheet-based (Excel in this case) tool for managing bread formulas.

Finally, I urge you to do everything by weight when baking bread. I'm sure that YouTube Tartine guy makes good bread by feel (I'm guessing he's also got a few thousand loaves under his belt) ... but I cringed every time he just tossed ingredients in the bowl without any attempt to measure or weigh anything.

[Thunder77]

100 percent agree. I tried weighing a cup of flour three different times after scooping, and got 3 very different results. Always go with weight.

[Richard Chrz]

Get a .01 gram scale as well. Weighing yeast and salt without it... waste of time.

[Thunder77]

+100 on that!

[radshop]

Sopping up the pork belly grease with my sourdough... Oh baby!

My whole life has only been the path to this moment.

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[Richard Chrz]

HAHAHAHA, wait until you have left over brisket point and start making sandwiches with your favorite toppings. it is all over from there