Welcome!


This is a membership forum. Guests can view 5 pages for free. To participate, please join.

[ Pitmaster Club Information | Join Now | Login | Contact Us ]

Only 4 free page views remaining.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Creating a new sourdough starter: A journal

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Creating a new sourdough starter: A journal

    In the past a few people have asked about this and as I said in another thread my current starter has some stubborn off-flavors that I can't get rid of. So, I'm making a new starter and thought I'd do a thread on what I'm doing and how it goes.

    There are a lot of ways to do a starter. The concept is easy - add flour and water, mix, and watch the bacteria and yeast in the flour grow. Initially, bacteria grows and the starter seems active but these aren't the bacteria we want. However, they produce acid, so the flour/water mixture starts neutral and becomes more acidic. These initial bacteria die off in an acidic environment, but the yeast that we do want like it that and begin to grow. The rest of the process is nurturing the yeast until there's enough of them to use as starter that will cause bread to rise.

    Some people try to hurry this initial process by adding some unsweetened fruit juice so the mixture is slightly acidic and thus better for the yeast from the start. However, I'm doing things the traditional way. Specifically, I'm following this process: https://www.theperfectloaf.com/7-eas...arter-scratch/

    EDIT: For those of you with Paprika, I've attached a recipe file to the bottom of this post. Download it, open and it should add itself to your recipes.

    The first photos are really exciting... a 100g/125g mixture of organic rye flour and distilled water. This is in my bread proofer at 82F right now and should show activity over 24 hours.

    I'll update this thread daily until I have a new starter. Or, well, not.


    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0872.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	1.28 MB ID:	1203553 Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0870.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	2.38 MB ID:	1203554
    Last edited by rickgregory; April 12, 2022, 08:22 PM.

    #2
    Day Two

    NOTE : I have a bread proofer that is keeping this new starter at 82F all the time. If you do this and your environment is cooler, you might not see things proceed quite as quickly as this... be patient.

    Also, use distilled water or, if you want to use tap, leave it out overnight so the chlorine dissipates. If your area uses chloramine, it will not dissipate in which case you want to grab some bottled or distilled water. I use distilled since I need some for the CPAP I used at night.

    So the starter roughly doubled in volume and showed a lot of bubbles. It's definitely got things in it that like to eat. The smell is grassy/hay. Not off at all, but like dried grass or hay.

    I fed this according to the link above: 75g of starter, 50g of rye, 50g of bread flour (the link calls for AP but I don't have any right now) and 115g of distilled water.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0878.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	2.81 MB ID:	1204171

    Top view. There are some bubbles around the edges:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0879.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	1.97 MB ID:	1204172
    Last edited by rickgregory; April 9, 2022, 03:25 PM.

    Comment


      #3
      Day 3: The wee beasties are definitely hungry

      So, I put a rubber band around the jar to make it easier to see the growth and, well, this thing is definitely alive. I'm a little scared it might climb out and start eating small animals...

      Smell is still the same, grassy. Activity should drop off tomorrow I think. We'll see.
      Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0882.jpeg
Views:	163
Size:	120.0 KB
ID:	1204725
      Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0883.jpeg
Views:	160
Size:	118.2 KB
ID:	1204726
      Last edited by rickgregory; April 10, 2022, 12:21 PM.

      Comment


        #4
        Yep, my startes (i have 2) have been nothing but water and flour ever. Pretty sure the lactobacillis bacteria remain along with the yeast.

        Comment


        • texastweeter
          texastweeter commented
          Editing a comment
          Yeah, right now I have been playing with cold bulk ferment (40°) vs hot bulk ferment (100°) and or a combination of both to encourage or retard the yeast vs bacteria and change flavors.

        • rickgregory
          rickgregory commented
          Editing a comment
          Best thing I did was buy a proofer. Temp controlled environment and I keep my house cool in the winter, so the proofer allows for warm ferments without heating the whole house.

        • texastweeter
          texastweeter commented
          Editing a comment
          My KA over has an adjustable proofing setting. I have checked with my ambient thermometer and it is pretty spot on.

        #5
        Days 4 and 5

        I got busy yesterday and, while i fed The Beastsâ„¢, I didn't take any pictures. It again doubled but collapsed faster ( fed it a couple hours late). Today it... um.. tripled. But it's smelling slightly sour vs the prior days grassy notes so I think I just avoided the collapse that some starters see.

        Also, the very active response I've seen could be due to the fact that I'm using relatively freshly milled organic rye and bread flour so the flours have a lot of nutrients and perhaps more yeast. Maybe.

        The starter began life about 40% full. It's... more than that now. On to 2x/day feedings!

        Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0886.jpeg Views:	3 Size:	1.96 MB ID:	1205812

        Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0888.jpeg Views:	3 Size:	2.14 MB ID:	1205813
        Last edited by rickgregory; April 12, 2022, 12:49 PM.

        Comment


          #6
          So, I've missed some days updating this but things went very smoothly. I never saw the dropoff some people do and the starter got used in a bread yesterday with a scant 1gram of SAF Red to ensure it went well.

          I started this thread to document a process that can have it's ups and downs (literally!) since a lot of people see a burst of activity, then a dropoff before the starter really establishes itself and I thought it might be helpful to track that and show it. However, mine didn't ever see a drop off and I think it's due to three things:

          1) Use good, organic flour. I used a mix of rye and wheat since rye seems to provide more nutrients but I think that's a Nice To Have. However, it's very possible that a good organic flour simply has more yeast in it and perhaps a more varied bunch of microbes, and so is a better food than a highly refined flour. Sure, I used a locally milled flour since it was available but I'd bet using a King Arthur or Bob's Red Mill would work just as well.

          2) Consistent, 24 hour warmth. I have a Brod & Taylor proofing box that I could leave setup at 82F all the time so the starter didn't have to power through cold nights, etc. If you live in a place where it's warm (70s) or do this in the summer you'd be fine. If not, you'll still be fine but the process will take longer if the ambient temps for ~12 hours a day fall to 60F or something. NOTE - especially if you don't have a warm place to keep the growing starter, warm the water you're using to about 90F so t hat the starter is 75-80F each feeding. Wrap towels around it and put it somewhere warm if you can or at least not drafty.

          3) Distilled water. You're trying to get microbes to grow. Tap has either chlorine or chloramines in it specifically to kill microbes. It's not so concentrated that it will kill all the bugs in your starter but why make the starter work against this?

          You can find distilled water in any supermarket for $1-2 per gallon so my take would be to just make it easy on yourself and use that.

          Ask away if you've any questions.
          Last edited by rickgregory; April 17, 2022, 06:35 PM.

          Comment


            #7
            So...I have been creating starters for mebbe 3-4 years. My starters ALWAYS spring to life within 4-ish days and pass the infamous float test. I have never experienced a drop off after that time. Never. I can guarantee that "organic flour" is not necessary. I have always used plain old KA bread flour; but I'd bet Gold Medal or Pillsbury would work just fine. Further, I have never used a proofer, or anything else, to keep a constant temperature. The starter just sits on the kitchen counter experiencing whatever "ambient" kitchen temperatures are in my house, whether summer or winter. I do use bottled (not necessarily distilled) water, but I strongly suspect that is not necessary-I'd bet tap water in MOST (if not all) municipalities would work just fine. Well, if your can smell chlorine in your tap water, do use bottled.

            Seriously folks, the 49er miners and Alaskan miners (them of legend--LOL) successfully used starters in the uncontrolled wild. This ain't rocket science. Mix some flour and water (50/50 by weight for me--makes the arithmetic in the head easier) and let it sit a few days--at least one or two days unsealed (but protected from insects)--then cover it and feed it regularly after, say the third day. Also, once "healthy", my starter can live in the fridge for a week or two without feeding--and so will yours.

            Edited to add: I have no experience here, but everything I have read says Do NOT spike your starter with commercial yeast, which is supposedly much more vigorous than wild yeasts and will likely outcompete the wild yeasts. I'd love to hear comments on this from folks who have actually tried using commercial yeasts in a SD starter.
            Last edited by Willy; April 17, 2022, 07:22 PM.

            Comment


              #8
              I'm not saying you can't use tap or can't use Gold Medal or can't just leave it out on the counter. I AM saying that all of the things I did seemed to help. My house drifts down to 50F at night during early spring. That WILL retard fermentation, especially since I keep the house in the mid-60s during the day. Tap water WILL inhibit microbial growth to a degree (assuming one's tap water is treated). Chlorine kills things, that's why it's there. I've seen rye starters ferment faster than those fed with AP. The latter did fine, but the rye and whole wheat did better.

              Can you use Gold Medal, tap water and not care about temps, but still come up with a starter? Sure. But there are a lot of stories about people whose starters don't take and usually it's because they DID hit a dropoff in growth after an initial burst in activity and just didn't wait long enough.

              I'm just trying to outline ways to make creating a starter easier and more likely to succeed by doing a few really easy things, which seems to have triggered you for some reason. It's EASY to get some organic bread (or AP or rye) flour for most of us. It's easy to use distilled water. Finding a nice warm place will help. Why NOT do these things when they're all stupidly easy to do? Why make it harder than it has to be?

              Finally, your point about the miners is amusing... because they *didnt* use treated tap and almost certainly used flour that wasn't highly refined (which is a post war thing for the most part) and, since pesticides etc didn't exist, was by default organic. In other words, they did pretty much what I did aside from the controlled proofer.
              Last edited by rickgregory; April 18, 2022, 09:28 AM.

              Comment

              Announcement

              Collapse
              No announcement yet.
              Working...
              X
              false
              0
              Guest
              Guest
              500
              ["pitmaster-my-membership","login","join-pitmaster","lostpw","reset-password","special-offers","help","nojs","meat-ups","gifts","authaau-alpha","ebooklogin-start","alpha","start"]
              false
              false
              {"count":0,"link":"/forum/announcements/","debug":""}
              Yes
              ["\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads","\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads\/1157845-paid-members-download-your-6-deep-dive-guide-ebooks-for-free-here","\/forum\/the-pitcast","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2019-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2020-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2021-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2022-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/current-2023-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/current-2024-issues","\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads\/1165909-trial-members-download-your-free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-here"]
              /forum/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads/1165909-trial-members-download-your-free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-here