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What would you guys think of this?

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  • Jmoscrip
    Founding Member
    • Jul 2014
    • 82
    • Port Huron, MI
    • Smoker: El cheapo Brinkman(not ideal but it was free)
      Thermometer: Maverick ET-733
      Fuel: Kingsford blue bag
      Favorite Beer: World Wide Stout(Dogfishhead brewery)

    What would you guys think of this?

    My suggestion would be for a Member of the month, or perhaps more appropriately Pitmaster of the month topic. It's been a regular feature of some other forums that I have been a part of and think it would be a nice addition to the site.

    Basically, every month one member is chosen by either the staff, or as voted on by the regular members here. No voting for yourself. Then whoever is chosen fills out a short interview to be written up and posted by whoever wants to maintain that topic(I would be willing to do the interviews and write-ups if you want).

    I think this would be a good way to get to know some of our fellow members a bit better. Background information how you got into BBQ and this website, hobbies or other interests. Things like that.

    I suppose it could also be tied to the gold medal giveaways each month, as a way to recognize members who benefit the community at large with their helpfulness and knowledge. Anyway that's just something that popped into my head as I was typing this it wouldn't have to be tied in with that perk.

    Ok so that's my suggestion in a nutshell. If you guys think this is a good idea and something that would benefit the site let me know.

    -Joel
  • Jon Solberg
    Former Member
    • Jul 2014
    • 4872

    #2
    I think its an interesting idea. I need to give it some thought but at first glance I do see some issues with it.

    I'm honestly not sure. While I would support this if the powers to be were behind it. I would rather be a worker then a participant.

    I personally would not want to be a member of the month but would totally support those that were. I guess as long as you can opt out. If thats the case I don't want to give up my chance to randomly win something....

    Oh but you can interview me if you want. We can skype up a pod cast maybe.... but I'm kinda boring.

    Last edited by Jon Solberg; July 31st, 2014, 07:55 PM.

    Comment

    • Huskee
      Pit Boss
      • May 2014
      • 14546
      • central MI, USA
      • Follow me on Instagram, huskeesbarbecue

        Want a free bottle of whiskey? Check out my link to Flaviar.com, you join with it, we both get a $50 bottle free.

        Smokers / Grills
        • Yoder loaded Wichita offset smoker
        • PBC
        • Grilla Silverbac pellet grill
        • Slow 'N Sear Deluxe Kamado (SnSK)
        • Dyna-Glo XL Premium dual chamber charcoal grill
        • Weber 22" Original Kettle Premium (copper)
        • Weber 26" Original Kettle Premium (black)
        • Weber Jumbo Joe Gold (18.5")
        • Weber Smokey Joe Silver (14.5")
        • Brinkmann cabinet charcoal smoker (repurposed)

        Thermometers
        • (3) Maverick XR-50: 4-probe Wireless Thermometers
        • (7) Maverick ET-732s
        • (1) Maverick ET-735 Bluetooth (in box)
        • (1) Smoke by ThermoWorks
        • (1) Signals by ThermoWorks
        • Thermapen MkII, orange
        • ThermoPop, yellow
        • ThermoWorks ChefAlarm
        • Morpilot 6-probe wireless
        • ThermoWorks Infrared IRK2
        • ThermoWorks fridge & freezer therms as well

        Accessories
        • Instant Pot 6qt
        • Anova Bluetooth SV
        • Kitchen Aide mixer & meat grinder attachment
        • Kindling Cracker King (XL)
        • BBQ Dragon
        • Weber full & half chimneys, Char-Broil Half Time chimney
        • Weber grill topper
        • Slow 'N Sear Original, XL, and SnS Charcoal Basket (for Jumbo Joe)
        • Drip 'N Griddle Pan, 22' Easy Spin Grate, and Elevated Cooking grate, by ABCbarbecue
        • Pittsburgh Digital Moisture Meter

        Beverages
        • Favorite summer beer: Leinenkugels Summer & Grapefruit Shandy, Hamm's, Michelob Ultra Pure Gold
        • Fav other beer: DAB, Sam Adams regular, Third Shift amber or Coors Batch 19, Stella Artois
        • Fav cheap beers: Pabst, High Life, Hamm's & Stroh's
        • Most favorite beer: The one in your fridge
        • Wine: Red- big, bold, tannic & peppery- Petite Sirah, Zinfandel, Cabernet Sauv, Sangiovese, Syrah, etc
        • Whiskey: Buffalo Trace, Eagle Rare, E.H. Taylor, Blanton's, Old Forester 1870, Elijah Craig, Basil Hayden's. Neat please.
        • Scotch: Current favorite- The Arran (anything by them), Glenmorangie 12yr Lasanta, sherry cask finished. The Balvenie Double Wood, also like Oban 18yr, and The Glenlivet Nadurra (Oloroso sherry cask finished) among others. Neat please.

        About me
        Real name: Aaron
        Location: Farwell, Michigan- near Clare. (dead center of lower peninsula)

        Occupation:
        • Healthcare- Licensed & Registered Respiratory Therapist (RRT) for MidMichigan Health, a University of Michigan Health System.

      #3
      Interesting idea. The powers that be are mulling it over.

      Comment

      • Marauderer
        Founding Member
        • Jul 2014
        • 1482
        • Powder Springs, Georgia
        • [ATTACH=CONFIG]temp_6496_1424176307798_786[/ATTACH] Barry
          Powder Springs, GA

          Weber S470 with smoker box and insulated custom cover
          RecTec w/grilling mat, front shelf, cover, Nomex Sealing Gasket, Hurd Downdraft Hood, Fuller's Earth,oversize wheels
          GMG Davy Crockett Wifi
          Blackstone 1575
          Seville Classics Rolling Workbench
          Grill Grates searing kit
          (2) Maverick ET-732
          Thermopen Classic w/glo case, Thermopop, Time Stick, Extra Big and Loud Timer, Chef Alarm
          Wine maker from kits, Merlot, Liebfraumilch, N.Z. Pinot Noir, and some other fuity tuity wines that are great with "Q"
          PickleMeister
          Pampered Chef Knives
          All Clad BD5
          Tyent Water Ionizer

          I want a "Stick Burner"!! Looking at Lang 36" Hybrid Deluxe. Either patio or trailer haven't made up my mind.

        #4
        I have noticed, on the Pitmaster's Forum, that members here do a better job filling out their Bios and Sig's better than most of my other forums that I am on. But, a lot of folks are not really interested in filling out their info.

        That being said, the member of the month sure expands the info that we have on a member and who they are, where they have been, and what they are doing. I enjoy the MOM on some of my forums and on others it makes no sense who they pick. Sometimes they have nominations from the membership on who they thing it should be then the moderators get together and select 5-6 and put out their Bios and have the membership vote on who they think it should be. There is a variety of ways to do it. Maybe our forum will come up with something innovative on a Member of the Month program.

        Comment

        • David Parrish
          Founding Member - Pit Boss Emeritus
          • May 2014
          • 5040
          • Charlotte, NC
            • Slow 'N Sear Kamado (SnSK)
            • Lots of grills that work with Slow 'N Sear
            • LOTS of digital thermometers (my fav)
            • LOTS of accessories
            • Favorite Beer - Fat Tire
            • Favorite Bourbon - Woodford Reserve
            • Favorite White Wine - Cakebread Chardonnay
            • Favorite Red Wine - Yes, Please
            • President/Owner - SnS Grills

          #5
          I like the idea. As we're thinking it over would like more folks to weigh in on this with thoughts on who the MOM should be. Should it be the Gold Medal Giveaway winner or should some other criteria be used?

          Comment


          • Jon Solberg
            Jon Solberg commented
            Editing a comment
            I kinda like this idea. Theres already a process this way

          • fredcanfly
            fredcanfly commented
            Editing a comment
            I feel like it should be a contributing member that community would like to know more about. It should be separate from the GMG winner. That way, those who don't really want to participate in the MOM can still win the GMG. Just my two cents...
        • Jmoscrip
          Founding Member
          • Jul 2014
          • 82
          • Port Huron, MI
          • Smoker: El cheapo Brinkman(not ideal but it was free)
            Thermometer: Maverick ET-733
            Fuel: Kingsford blue bag
            Favorite Beer: World Wide Stout(Dogfishhead brewery)

          #6
          Glad you like the idea David. The Gold Medal Giveaway was sort of an afterthought to my original idea. That being said, I think that the GMG should go to an active, contributing member of the forum.

          Would MOM be a good way to ensure that is what happens? Yes I believe it is.

          Is it the only way? Absolutely not.

          Consider if the two were tied together this might encourage those who are more inclined to "lurk" for lack of a better term, to take a more participatory role in these forums.

          I think that maybe if a member was chosen as member of the month and chose not to participate that would be ok. We could just say that member X has declined to participate in the interview but look at this great prize he/she has won. Keep in mind that when I said interview above what I had in mind was an fun, interesting and entertaining set of questions to help us get to know that person a little better. It's not like we would be asking you about your deepest personal secrets or anything like that. Also you could always just decline to answer a particular question. Hopefully I've been able to explain this adequately.


          And lastly Jon, I sincerely doubt that anyone as active as yourself on these forums could be considered, by any measure, to be a boring person.

          Respectfully,

          Joel

          Comment

          • David Parrish
            Founding Member - Pit Boss Emeritus
            • May 2014
            • 5040
            • Charlotte, NC
              • Slow 'N Sear Kamado (SnSK)
              • Lots of grills that work with Slow 'N Sear
              • LOTS of digital thermometers (my fav)
              • LOTS of accessories
              • Favorite Beer - Fat Tire
              • Favorite Bourbon - Woodford Reserve
              • Favorite White Wine - Cakebread Chardonnay
              • Favorite Red Wine - Yes, Please
              • President/Owner - SnS Grills

            #7
            Originally posted by Jmoscrip View Post
            Glad you like the idea David. The Gold Medal Giveaway was sort of an afterthought to my original idea. That being said, I think that the GMG should go to an active, contributing member of the forum.

            Would MOM be a good way to ensure that is what happens? Yes I believe it is.

            Is it the only way? Absolutely not.

            Consider if the two were tied together this might encourage those who are more inclined to "lurk" for lack of a better term, to take a more participatory role in these forums.

            I think that maybe if a member was chosen as member of the month and chose not to participate that would be ok. We could just say that member X has declined to participate in the interview but look at this great prize he/she has won. Keep in mind that when I said interview above what I had in mind was an fun, interesting and entertaining set of questions to help us get to know that person a little better. It's not like we would be asking you about your deepest personal secrets or anything like that. Also you could always just decline to answer a particular question. Hopefully I've been able to explain this adequately.


            And lastly Jon, I sincerely doubt that anyone as active as yourself on these forums could be considered, by any measure, to be a boring person.

            Respectfully,

            Joel

            The GMG is a random selection chosen by a third party sweepstakes company. That's a promise we've made to all members. GMG isn't based on participation in the forum. So really this discussion is more along the lines of should the MOM be the GMG by default or should we pick a MOM based on his/her participation in the forum. I'm inclined to the latter. The MOM should be picked by the forum to recognize the forum member that's been an outstanding contributor. Let's keep the discussion going.

            Comment

            • Jmoscrip
              Founding Member
              • Jul 2014
              • 82
              • Port Huron, MI
              • Smoker: El cheapo Brinkman(not ideal but it was free)
                Thermometer: Maverick ET-733
                Fuel: Kingsford blue bag
                Favorite Beer: World Wide Stout(Dogfishhead brewery)

              #8
              Ah, well that does change things a bit. In that case David I'm with you that the two things should be separate and MOM should go to the person you feel most deserving of it. Rather than someone picked by luck of the draw as it were.

              -Joel

              Comment

              • fredcanfly
                Former Member
                • Jul 2014
                • 38
                • Kansas

                #9
                Definitely with Joel on this one. Our MOM needs to be someone who participates and is deserving. We also need to consider how often we would let a member win the MOM. Would definitely like to see it be more than just a handful winning all the time, but wouldn't want it to be a thing where if you win once, you are not able to again. That balance is going to be dificult to find. Well, maybe not in this community. We have so many active members who are passionate about their "Q" that we may not need to restrict it at all...

                Comment

                • Jon Solberg
                  Former Member
                  • Jul 2014
                  • 4872

                  #10
                  Some questions, more rhetorical than anything.

                  Will this be managed by committee?

                  Will there be a criteria for MOM?

                  How will selection/nomination take place?

                  How will election take place?

                  While I have no desire to be a MOM (that sound funny) I'm more than happy to help with any work that needs to be done to insure success.

                  Comment


                  • boftx
                    boftx commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I agree. Just one has been called a "mother" at times doesn't mean one wants to be a MOM.

                  • fredcanfly
                    fredcanfly commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I think if we had a community vote, then that would be the way to go. As for how the election takes place, we could start it on the first and go until the 28th of each month. Whoever gets the most votes, wins. I don't know how this forum is set up as far as voting capabilities are concerned, but maybe a simple voting thread would do it. Or a preliminary vote by the 10th of each month and then take the top five and put them to a vote until the 28th (gives time to tally, and possibly even do the interview by the first). That would probably work even better. Again, just my opinion...
                • David Parrish
                  Founding Member - Pit Boss Emeritus
                  • May 2014
                  • 5040
                  • Charlotte, NC
                    • Slow 'N Sear Kamado (SnSK)
                    • Lots of grills that work with Slow 'N Sear
                    • LOTS of digital thermometers (my fav)
                    • LOTS of accessories
                    • Favorite Beer - Fat Tire
                    • Favorite Bourbon - Woodford Reserve
                    • Favorite White Wine - Cakebread Chardonnay
                    • Favorite Red Wine - Yes, Please
                    • President/Owner - SnS Grills

                  #11
                  Originally posted by fredcanfly View Post
                  Definitely with Joel on this one. Our MOM needs to be someone who participates and is deserving. We also need to consider how often we would let a member win the MOM. Would definitely like to see it be more than just a handful winning all the time, but wouldn't want it to be a thing where if you win once, you are not able to again. That balance is going to be dificult to find. Well, maybe not in this community. We have so many active members who are passionate about their "Q" that we may not need to restrict it at all...
                  How about each member can win one time per year?

                  Comment


                  • boftx
                    boftx commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I wouldn't worry too much about "term limits" but I can see where having the same person win time after time could/would kill forum activity. So yes, overall I would agree with once per year.

                    As for tying it in with the GMG that is an immediate non-starter for me.

                  • fredcanfly
                    fredcanfly commented
                    Editing a comment
                    That would probably do it...
                • Jon Solberg
                  Former Member
                  • Jul 2014
                  • 4872

                  #12
                  Jmoscrip as this is your baby so to speak how can I help.

                  For the sake of keeping this alive I'm going to raise my hand and if all agree, offer to start framing up some type of criteria, guidelines, nomination process, something for all to respond to. Not sure what that is but something. More than likely start gleaning stuff and refiguring it.

                  Not at all trying to drive the development just to help facilitate it.

                  Thoughts/direction anyone?
                  Last edited by Jon Solberg; August 6th, 2014, 08:06 AM.

                  Comment

                  • David Parrish
                    Founding Member - Pit Boss Emeritus
                    • May 2014
                    • 5040
                    • Charlotte, NC
                      • Slow 'N Sear Kamado (SnSK)
                      • Lots of grills that work with Slow 'N Sear
                      • LOTS of digital thermometers (my fav)
                      • LOTS of accessories
                      • Favorite Beer - Fat Tire
                      • Favorite Bourbon - Woodford Reserve
                      • Favorite White Wine - Cakebread Chardonnay
                      • Favorite Red Wine - Yes, Please
                      • President/Owner - SnS Grills

                    #13
                    Jon that's awesome and much appreciated. Can you coordinate with Joel? I get the feeling he'd like to work on it as well. Ideally we'd spread responsibilities over a few people so it stays fun and doesn't feel like work.

                    Comment


                    • Jon Solberg
                      Jon Solberg commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Got it On it. Will keep all looped in.
                  • Huskee
                    Pit Boss
                    • May 2014
                    • 14546
                    • central MI, USA
                    • Follow me on Instagram, huskeesbarbecue

                      Want a free bottle of whiskey? Check out my link to Flaviar.com, you join with it, we both get a $50 bottle free.

                      Smokers / Grills
                      • Yoder loaded Wichita offset smoker
                      • PBC
                      • Grilla Silverbac pellet grill
                      • Slow 'N Sear Deluxe Kamado (SnSK)
                      • Dyna-Glo XL Premium dual chamber charcoal grill
                      • Weber 22" Original Kettle Premium (copper)
                      • Weber 26" Original Kettle Premium (black)
                      • Weber Jumbo Joe Gold (18.5")
                      • Weber Smokey Joe Silver (14.5")
                      • Brinkmann cabinet charcoal smoker (repurposed)

                      Thermometers
                      • (3) Maverick XR-50: 4-probe Wireless Thermometers
                      • (7) Maverick ET-732s
                      • (1) Maverick ET-735 Bluetooth (in box)
                      • (1) Smoke by ThermoWorks
                      • (1) Signals by ThermoWorks
                      • Thermapen MkII, orange
                      • ThermoPop, yellow
                      • ThermoWorks ChefAlarm
                      • Morpilot 6-probe wireless
                      • ThermoWorks Infrared IRK2
                      • ThermoWorks fridge & freezer therms as well

                      Accessories
                      • Instant Pot 6qt
                      • Anova Bluetooth SV
                      • Kitchen Aide mixer & meat grinder attachment
                      • Kindling Cracker King (XL)
                      • BBQ Dragon
                      • Weber full & half chimneys, Char-Broil Half Time chimney
                      • Weber grill topper
                      • Slow 'N Sear Original, XL, and SnS Charcoal Basket (for Jumbo Joe)
                      • Drip 'N Griddle Pan, 22' Easy Spin Grate, and Elevated Cooking grate, by ABCbarbecue
                      • Pittsburgh Digital Moisture Meter

                      Beverages
                      • Favorite summer beer: Leinenkugels Summer & Grapefruit Shandy, Hamm's, Michelob Ultra Pure Gold
                      • Fav other beer: DAB, Sam Adams regular, Third Shift amber or Coors Batch 19, Stella Artois
                      • Fav cheap beers: Pabst, High Life, Hamm's & Stroh's
                      • Most favorite beer: The one in your fridge
                      • Wine: Red- big, bold, tannic & peppery- Petite Sirah, Zinfandel, Cabernet Sauv, Sangiovese, Syrah, etc
                      • Whiskey: Buffalo Trace, Eagle Rare, E.H. Taylor, Blanton's, Old Forester 1870, Elijah Craig, Basil Hayden's. Neat please.
                      • Scotch: Current favorite- The Arran (anything by them), Glenmorangie 12yr Lasanta, sherry cask finished. The Balvenie Double Wood, also like Oban 18yr, and The Glenlivet Nadurra (Oloroso sherry cask finished) among others. Neat please.

                      About me
                      Real name: Aaron
                      Location: Farwell, Michigan- near Clare. (dead center of lower peninsula)

                      Occupation:
                      • Healthcare- Licensed & Registered Respiratory Therapist (RRT) for MidMichigan Health, a University of Michigan Health System.

                    #14
                    I think the guys spearheading this idea are first on the nomination list

                    Comment


                    • Jon Solberg
                      Jon Solberg commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Agreed, I hear by nominate Joel aka Jmoscrip for inaugural MOM.

                      ( dang, I need to brush up on my Roberts Rules of Order perhaps)
                  • Marauderer
                    Founding Member
                    • Jul 2014
                    • 1482
                    • Powder Springs, Georgia
                    • [ATTACH=CONFIG]temp_6496_1424176307798_786[/ATTACH] Barry
                      Powder Springs, GA

                      Weber S470 with smoker box and insulated custom cover
                      RecTec w/grilling mat, front shelf, cover, Nomex Sealing Gasket, Hurd Downdraft Hood, Fuller's Earth,oversize wheels
                      GMG Davy Crockett Wifi
                      Blackstone 1575
                      Seville Classics Rolling Workbench
                      Grill Grates searing kit
                      (2) Maverick ET-732
                      Thermopen Classic w/glo case, Thermopop, Time Stick, Extra Big and Loud Timer, Chef Alarm
                      Wine maker from kits, Merlot, Liebfraumilch, N.Z. Pinot Noir, and some other fuity tuity wines that are great with "Q"
                      PickleMeister
                      Pampered Chef Knives
                      All Clad BD5
                      Tyent Water Ionizer

                      I want a "Stick Burner"!! Looking at Lang 36" Hybrid Deluxe. Either patio or trailer haven't made up my mind.

                    #15
                    HHhmmmm, The PIT is a democratic group??? Interesting.

                    I think that the MOM and the GMG should be seperate.

                    I think that Jon and Joel should be commended for volunteering to come up with some guidelines for the awards/recognitions.

                    Like in Roberts Rules of Order (current revised edition), They, Jon and Joel, would be the nucleus of an Ad Hoc Committee to explore the criteria for the MOM. ( Huskee, once upon a time in another universe I was fairly familiar with RRoO)

                    Comment


                    • Jon Solberg
                      Jon Solberg commented
                      Editing a comment
                      lol lol lol

                      Thank you for the kind words Barry. Keep in mind this is Joel baby. I'm just a worker bee

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                  G&F Suede Welder's Gloves

                  Heat Resistant Gloves With Extra Long Sleeves Hold The Hot Stuff

                  If you're using oven mitts at the grill, it's time to trade up. Say hello to these suede welder's gloves. They're heat resistant enough to handle hot grill grates, and flexible enough to handle tongs. The extra long sleeves even let you reach deep into the firebox to move hot logs without getting burned. Our Fave.

                  Click here to read our detailed review

                  Click here to order from Amazon


                  GrillGrates Take Gas Grills To The Infrared Zone

                  grill grates

                  GrillGrates(TM) amplify heat, prevent flareups, make flipping foods easier, keep small foods from committing suicide, kill hotspots, are easier to clean, flip over to make a fine griddle, and can be easily removed and moved from one grill to another. You can even throw wood chips, pellets, or sawdust between the rails and deliver a quick burst of smoke to whatever is above. Every gas grill needs them.

                  Click here for more about what makes these grates so special


                  PK 360 grill

                  Is This Superb Charcoal Grill A Kamado Killer?

                  The PK-360, with 360 square inches of cooking space, this rust free, cast aluminum charcoal grill is durable and easy to use. Four-way venting means it's easy to set up for two zone cooking with more control than single vent Kamado grills. It is much easier to set up for 2-zone cooking than any round kamado. Beautifully designed and completely portable. Meathead says it is his preferrred grill.

                  Click here to read our detailed review of the PK 360

                  Click here to order it direct from PK and get a special deal for AmazingRibs.com readers only


                  kareubequ bbq smoker

                  Our Favorite Backyard Smoker

                  The amazing Karubecue is the most innovative smoker in the world. The quality of meat from this machine is astonishing. At its crux is a patented firebox that burns logs above the cooking chamber and sucks heat and extremely clean blue smoke into the thermostat controlled oven. It is our favorite smoker, period.

                  Click here for our review of this superb smoker


                  Masterbuilt MPS 340/G ThermoTemp XL Propane Smoker

                  masterbuilt gas smoker

                  The First Propane Smoker With A Thermostat Makes This Baby Foolproof

                  Set ThermoTemp's dial from 175° to 350°F and the thermostat inside will adjust the burner just like an indoor kitchen oven. All you need to do is add wood to the tray above the burner to start smokin'.

                  Click here to read our detailed review


                  Professional Steakhouse Knife Set

                  masterbuilt gas smoker

                  Our founder, Meathead, wanted the same steak knives used by steakhouses such as Peter Luger, Smith & Wollensky, Morton's, Kobe Club, Palm, and many others. So he located the manufacturer and had them stamp our name on some. They boast pointed, temper-ground, serrated, high-carbon stainless-steel, half-tang blades with excellent cutting edge ability. The beefy hardwood handle provides a comfortable grip secured by three hefty rivets. He has machine washed his more than 100 times. They have never rusted and they stay shiny without polishing. Please note that we do not make, sell, or distribute these knives, they just engrave them with our name.

                  Click here to read our detailed review and to order


                  Fireboard: The Ultimate Top Of The Line BBQ Thermometer

                  fireboard bbq thermometer

                  With the ability to monitor up to six temperatures simultaneously with either Bluetooth or Wifi on your mobile phone, tablet, or computer, Fireboard is the best digital thermometer we’ve tested.

                  Click here to read our detailed review


                  Finally, A Great Portable Pellet Smoker

                  Green Mountain Davey Crockett Grill

                  Green Mountain's portable Davy Crockett Pellet Smoker is one mean tailgating and picnic machine. But it's also gaining popularity with people who want to add a small, set it and forget it pellet smoker to their backyard arsenal. And with their WiFi capabilities you can control and monitor Davy Crocket from your smart phone or laptop.

                  Click here to read our detailed review and to order