Wok Hei!

[jfmorris]

So, recent discussion with Attjack in a thread about Panhead John and his flat top woes has led me to think about what it takes to get true "wok hei". I've used my 14" carbon steel wok, to date, on an indoor gas cooktop with a max output of 12,000 BTU's per burner, which is typical for an indoor stove. After all, I got the wok to use on the stove in the winter, for those days its just too cold/dark/wet/nasty to go outside and use the flat top in the backyard.

So, articles like this one indicate that to get the TRUE "wok hei" experience, we need 50,000 to 100,000 BTU's, on an outdoor wok burner:

https://kitchenambition.com/how-many...r-wok-cooking/

I've got multiple outdoor burners - a 2 burner stand with a 65000 BTU counter height banjo burner, and a lower 105000 BTU jet burner. I've also got two standalone turkey fryer style burners with 65000 BTU banjo style burners. I am betting that any of those will lead to a much better wok experience as far as heat and "wok hei" go.

BUT.... and this is the big but... it means going outside, taking all my stir fry ingredients outside, and also setting up a folding table next to the burner, to stage everything on, and if winter, keeping the food warm once it is cooked, before taking it inside. And while my 2 burner stand lives in the garage, and is used for brewing beer in 15.5 gallon pots, I have to run it with all the garage doors open. So the arguments about taking the wok and all stuff outside would still apply.

So.... if I am going to all that trouble, why fire up a 14 inch carbon steel wok on a high output burner, versus firing up my 6 burner Camp Chef flattop, which has 900 square inches of griddle top?

I am hoping to get a little discussion here about wok cooking versus flat top cooking, so I can understand why I might want to try using the wok outside, versus just using the flat top...

[RonB]

I wish I could help, but I don't have a flat top or an outdoor wok burner, (although I keep thinking about getting one).

[jfmorris]

Well, I am thinking of trying a burner I already have at some point, but I doubt I would get a dedicated wok burner, considering I already have a flat top.

[Oak Smoke]

I use a cast iron wok indoors. I honestly don’t know the output of the largest burner on our stove, but it’s no where near what my outdoor Camp Chef propane burner can put out. All that being said I use a cast iron wok indoors. If I give it a while to heat up before I start cooking it will be very hot. Since I am usually only cooking for two it doesn’t get loaded to the point it cools down rapidly. I do have to run the vent hood on high to help when I get the oil near it’s smoke point.

[jfmorris]

Yeah, those Camp Chef outdoor stoves put out 30,000 BTU's per burner. About 3x what an indoor stove puts out. I think the cooktop inside is limited in order to reduce the generation of carbon monoxide. A bigger flame means more CO generated, and indoor stoves and ovens are limited to 800ppm CO in their exhaust gases, by law and regulation.

I too mostly use my wok to cook for just two, so it is smaller batches.

[hoovarmin]

I'm keenly interested in what this thread will yield, but I don't have anything to contribute.

[Attjack]

I'm thinking you either do wok hei indoors like so.



Or outdoors and my guess is outdoors is much better.



Or you figure out a way to do the real deal indoors.

[Attjack]

Michael_in_TX I ran into that photo on the internet apparently it was a photo from an Airbnb ad!

[jfmorris]

Haha. If I were gonna put in that huge exhaust hood, I sure wouldn't be putting a crappy Charbroil grill under it!

The exhaust hood would be needed for any truly high output NG or propane cooker indoors. This is why you see large exhaust systems in commercial kitchens. Gets the smoke AND the CO out of the kitchen fast.

[hoovarmin]

You can rest assured that last photo is from the house of a single man.

[Michael_in_TX]

A few months ago when I nearly went all-in on asian cooking, I went down a similar line of thinking. I have an electric range, so I very quickly started looking at gas options. And then I get into the frame of mind of well, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it right and before I knew it, I had spec'ed out a dedicated outdoor wok station -- that's a lot of expensive infrastructure for a $30 pan!

My fake wok/flat top is my cast iron skillet on my electric range. I'm turning out really good food with this. I think I may have hit the point of diminishing returns. To get that full wok hei experience (and flavor), I'll need to add some expense and some significant "hassle." And that is where I get stuck.

[jfmorris]

Attjack 's first photo mirrors what I read in this article about "torch hei":

https://www.seriouseats.com/hei-now-youre-a-wok-star-a-fiery-hack-for-stir-frying-at-home

And this article by Kenji goes into it as well:

https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-for-the-best-stir-fry-fire-up-the-grill

[Smoked Transistors]

If you dont mind going outside for now to use your outdoors burners, Kenji compared Wok Burners for the true Wok Hei flavors

[Attjack]

hoovarmin That's on my list of things to evaluate. I have a couple of burners in the outdoor kitchen but they are not very powerful. So I'm curious about boiling large pots of water as well as seeing if it can act as a high-powered burner for other non-wok applications. I'm also wanting to use it to design around. I feel like a wok burner will complete my outdoor kitchen. So I'll take measurements and try to build that out while I'm on the waiting list for that burner.

[Old Glory]

I have that burner and it makes a huge difference. It is pretty stable but taller than regular turkey fryer burners. You would have to be careful not to bump it. They do sell a stabilizer bar that clamps to a leg then you put a weight on it to add stability. In the indoor burner on the stove I will tilt the pan to try and flame up some oil as I toss and mix the food. Works ok but not as well as the power burner.

[Attjack]

Old Glory I'm hoping to buy the short version and set it on a custom-built countertop.

[FireMan]

Wok Hei is not about BTUs. It is about the wok, even on an indoor western stove. Wok Hei is not only achieved on Asian Restaurants with maximum thermal output. The wok is an ancient cooking utensil created long before Tim Allen & Binford got involved. Oh, my guy said "they" didn’t get into cooking. Regardless, you have to understand the usage of the vessel & the techniques. From the land of power & more is better is not Chinese cooking. When you delve into technique you will begin to understand Wok Hei.

[jfmorris]

I guess I need to go buy "Breath of a Wok" and read it...

[hoovarmin]

One day I will be able to snatch the pebble from your hand, but that day is a long way off.

[rickgregory]

So.... if I am going to all that trouble, why fire up a 14 inch carbon steel wok on a high output burner, versus firing up my 6 burner Camp Chef flattop, which has 900 square inches of griddle top?
​

Because it's not just heat as I understand it, it's how the heat sneaks over the wok as you toss things on a very very very hot flame. Also, that high heat lets you cook a large mass of food very very quickly because there's effectively no temperature loss as you add the food to the wok. Or, rather, the recovery is basically instantaneous.

The griddle isn't going to give you the former. I don't know if you can imitate the latter since you could of course spread out a large amount of food so it might be the same thing in the end.

Obviously you need to try this. For science.

PS: Does Alabama HAVE winters??

[Attjack]

Cooking in the cold or snow is more fun than the cold rain.

[rickgregory]

"Also, Alabama has winters. Most of it is wet, rainy, gray, overcast and in the 30-50 temp range. "

Heck that sounds like Seattle. I thought maybe you had S. Cali 'winters' where it's cold if it drops under 60F

[jfmorris]

Attjack agreed. I would have no issue standing in the snow to grill. But when its blowing rain and in the mid to upper 30's, not so much.

rickgregory unfortunately we either get super cold and dry - some single digit lows last winter - or its wet, but too warm for snow, so its rain, drizzle, etc. Unless I plant some winter rye my backyard turns into a mud pit in the winter when all the regular grass is dormant.

[Uncle Bob]

My go to is the CC Somerset stove, 30k btu. Recovery time is what I like best compared to the inside stove which has a larger (for a household stove) 15k burner. As noted above, technique is part of the process, working for that slight "char". It may have been Kenji (I didn't rewatch the vid lined), but someone who should know once said that another "trick" to enhance wok hei is to pour in the sauce on the hot pan directly then mix into the rice/noodle/whatever, rather than dumping it on the food directly before mixing. Seems to work well for me.

[FireMan]

In answer to Ol’ jfmorris ‘ comment, yup. In none of Grace Young's books, Breath of Wok, To The Sky”s Edge & The Wisdom of the Chinese Kitchen or Martin Yan’s books & fer that matter my whole ding dang (not yin & yang) library does any body ever mention spending like a fool to get the baddest hot rod with all the latest on it. It only talks about, the wok. The simple wok.

[JCBBQ]

What’s your recommendation for a Thai cookbook?

[FireMan]

And further, heh, heh, heh, think of Jacque Pepin and Le Technique or when it comes to rill BBQ. Q is not about power but low, slow cookin, rubs, sauces, timing, wrapping, foil, paper or nuthin. Can you say technique. When I’m doin my 3 or 4 times a week scrambled eggs I’m not thinkin 30,000 BTUs. Gentlemen & Ladies educate yerself about the tool & how to use it.

[Washblue]

Wok cooking got intense for me when I watched a chef in a Shanghai Marriott, assemble a dish in a huge wok… that could have been close to 36” over a volcano like burner!

When he did his final toss he grabbed it off the burner, set it on the floor… and with one hand on the Cantonese style handle and a foot, he tossed the dish while the other hand worked a spatula!

that day, I realized my wok skills needed work…

[Old Glory]

I have the Power Burner Kenji recommended. While skilled chefs may be able to achieve Wok Hei without the extra fire power, in my experience it is much easier with the added BTUs. You need high heat to sear and caramelize the foods. My stove top just does not come close to the PB. I don't go full blast with the PB but even halfway is more powerful than my indoor burner. You can make tasty food, but you need high heat to get true Wok Hei.

Here are some stir fry tips from the Woks of Life.

https://thewoksoflife.com/how-to-make-stir-fry/

[hoovarmin]

Old Glory and Attjack do you recommend getting the stabilizers and the long legs? Also, I'd like to connect this to my propane gas line. Do either of you know whether that would require choosing the tank over the bottle? Sorry for all the questions.

[Attjack]

I have to defer to Old Glory as I do not yet possess the burner.

[Old Glory]

hoovarmin I will check in the morning but I think I went with the tank. It came with a hose connection just like a gas grill to connect to a 20 lb tank. I have the tall legs and it lets me cook at a comfortable height. I have not used the stabilizer it is stable enough on its own. Though I might if I were boiling a big heavy pot of water. I also use it on my deck which is a flat surface. On uneven ground the stabilizer might be helpful.