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VIDEO- Dr. Greg Blonder: "Wood, Smoke, & the Smoke Ring" (1hr:39m)

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    #91
    Mr. Brisket,

    If by sodium bicarbonate you are referring to "Baking soda", I believe the answer is yes. He did talk about using baking soda and I think he called for very little. If memory serves it was 1/8 teaspoon per pound of meat.

    Comment


      #92
      Thanks I must have missed that part, I am going to give it a try

      Comment


        #93
        I just watched this episode. Thanks Meathead and Dr. Blonder for a very informative interview. My next smoke will be greatly improved using this knowledge. Thanks!

        Comment


          #94
          Greta presentation, a Plethora of Information

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            #95
            What about cold smoking for 30 min to a hour first ?

            Comment


              #96
              Like someone else, I've watched this three times in it's entirety, and some parts more (hey, not the brightest smoking bulb here). Thought it would be hard to beat Dr. Blonder's salt seminar, but he sure did!! What a great seminar! It has caused me to have a few thoughts/questions.

              There is very little flavor in briquettes, but a a fair amount of NO compared with other fuels. Is this informing us that the flavored (hickory, royal oak and others) briquettes is fairly useless? I don't buy them, but do people pay a premium for the flavored briquettes? Is it worth it?

              The NO interacting with the collagen in the protein produces the smoke ring. This interaction is impacted by the acidity of the protein. The more acidic the protein, the less the smoke ring. Since I slather most pork with mustard, which is acidic, I am likely giving up smoke ring. I use the mustard for the vinegar to act on the fatty tissue to help break it down. But Dr. Blonder said that the smoke ring doesn't really have a lot of flavor. Basically it feeds our braggadocio desires. So am I just giving up some bragging rights/optics in return for more tender Q?

              When I fire up my WSM, I have been using Harry Soo's doughnut method. When I add the lit coals, I decrease the exhaust vent to 1/3rd or less. So am I choking down my airflow and risking bitterness? Should I use the minion method instead and open up the vents for a smaller but hotter burn to get a sweeter/bluer smoke? After a short while after adding my lit coals, I only see thin bluefish smoke. Thoughts anyone?
              Last edited by richinlbrg; May 27, 2015, 04:24 AM. Reason: To correct iPad formatting issue to make it somewhat readable

              Comment


              • David Parrish
                David Parrish commented
                Editing a comment
                Gotcha! I fwd'd this to Dr. B btw. He said he'd check in

              • docblonder
                docblonder commented
                Editing a comment
                We eat with our eyes as well as our tongue, and most people look for the smoke ring. But you can generate a ring with a mustard slather every time- just smoke for the first half hour with the dry rub, and then add the mustard. The mustard doesn't really help break down the fat during cooking, but sure tastes good.

                I wouldn't bother with the flavored briquettes. You can't control the amount of smoke or timing in the cook. Or the combustion conditions. Better off throwing in a few hunks at the start of the cook, and run the fire a bit hotter initially, so the wood burns cleanly.

                Harry Soo knows what he is doing, but is clear his method depends on using the right size water pan, right amount of blackening inside the WSM, etc. There is always the risk of slipping into the acrid zone. Less likely with lump charcoal. But the answer is trust your nose and tongue. You may find 1/2 vent never bitter, 1/4 always and a coin toss in-between. In the end every smoker is different, and every cook an adventure.

              • richinlbrg
                richinlbrg commented
                Editing a comment
                THANK YOU SO MUCH, @ docblonder!

                GREAT seminars!

              #97
              WOA!! THANK YOU!!

              Comment


                #98
                Hi Dr. Blonder.
                I've watched the video quite a few times and have been trying to perfect getting blue smoke and controlling the temps. I have been playing with a new snake method for my WSM 18 and wanted to get your thoughts. Plus I had a couple of questions.
                I've usually used Harry Soo's donut method with good results. It usually involves choking down the vents though as the lit coals spread and heat increases quickly as the circle gets bigger. Instead I wanted to keep the vents open 100% to max air flow and keep a smaller+hotter fire going without having to add charcoal. My new method is to use ceramic brickets to create a fire wall in the WSM charcoal ring. I stack the ceramics down the middle of the ring (usually 2 brickets wide and pointing from the middle of the ring down to 6 o'clock) and then fill the rest of the ring with kingsford charcoal. The only part I leave empty is just to the right of the ceramics (5 o'clock) where I leave a space to add the lit coals similar to Harry's donut (Picture below). The charcoal then burns counter clockwise around the ring. So far I've tried it on 5 cooks and have had very consistent temps at 225-250 with all the vents open 100%. I place wood on top of the charcoal for the first third of the ring so that it continues to smoke as the fire spreads for the first 3-4 hours until I wrap. I also add a couple of chunks on top of the lit coals after I add them to the ring and bring temp up. I've gotten blue smoke each time. I've also found that my best gauge has been to smell the smoke - it is really clear when you have a nice, sweet smelling smoke vs a campfire smoke.

                Any comments on this method or suggestions?

                I also had a few questions:
                -I've had bad smoke in the past when the wood is in flames. Unless I misunderstood the video, you don't want the fire smoldering OR in full combustion. What should the "burning bush" sweet spot you describe look like for someone who uses charcoal and wood chunks? Currently I've been looking to see the red hot coal bed and wood that is partially burning and turning black (vs being 100% engulfed in flames).

                -When is wood producing the best smoke flavour: during the period when it is turning to charcoal, or after the exterior has turned dark and it is slowly burning? I've noticed that the smoke is white when I first add the wood and I am getting blue smoke usually after a good % of the chunk has already turned to charcoal. Once the wood looks mostly converted to charcoal, there is almost no smoke. Tuffy also mentioned that there is almost no smoke when he cooks.

                -building on the above question and Minion or Harry Soo method, are you better heating the smoker up and giving some time for the charcoals to start to spread before adding wood, or add wood as the smoker heats up. (and add meat when the wood has burned a bit and the smoke is sweet).

                -Lastly I was reading up on pellet smokers and surprised to see that the smoking temp on the units I look at was 160-180 degrees. how does this relate to the temps you mention in the video? Is there something unique about pellets or pellet smokers that allow them to get good smoke off of such low temps (eg is it small fire plus lots of oxygen?)

                Thanks for your work, the great videos and any answers you can provide! Steve
                Click image for larger version

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                • docblonder
                  docblonder commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Steve-
                  Ah, the spirit of innovation is alive and well! You are absolutely right, blue sweet smoke is "visible" simply by listening to your nose. I know many pitmasters who are serving food at the front of the house, smell the smoke has changed, and run back to adjust the vents. Your modified Soo/Minion methods seems to work well- keep it up.

                  You are correct that the initial stages of wood combustion can be less sweet than the middle stages. This is why some pits are fired with embers from wood pre-burned partially into coals in a burn barrel. But, if you use smaller hunks of wood (finger-tip sized pieces) they catch faster and burn a little sweeter than 2" hunks. Just weigh out so you use the same amount each time. Let us know how it turns out.

                  Most modern pellet smokers can run from 175F to 350F. To achieve the lower temps, they burn fewer pellets per hour but just as efficiently. So the smoke is still pretty clean.

                #99
                I've also played around with something similar trying to get a smaller hotter fire. This worked but I've only ran it once so I can't say much about the results.

                Main thing I've found lately, like docblonder suggested, is smaller pieces of wood make better smoke.

                Comment


                  Thanks for the replies Doc and GT651. I'll try the smaller chunks to look for the difference. That's a pretty cool looking set up you have GT - what smoker do you have?

                  Comment


                    Doc Blonder... I'm a BGE guy.

                    Thank you for your video/contribution to our aspiration to become more informed about how to perfect our BBQ addiction.

                    In trying to absorb the information in the video and trying to apply it to my BGE. I'm thinking that maybe I should start using a water pan for the first part of my cooks? I've never used a water pan in my BGE before.

                    I'm thinking that the night before I smoke ribs I should do a dry brine with salt, wrap them in plastic wrap and put them in the fridge over night. Then 1 hour before I put them on my large BGE put them in the freezer to cool them down more. Take them out of the freezer, add the Memphis Dust and put them on the grill.

                    I'm thinking for the first 15/30 minutes I should smoke them at a hotter temperature, like 250/275 and put the 8/12 ounces of wood chips very close to the small fire you need in a BGE to keep your heat down to that low temp. I'm thinking I can let the wood chips burn out after 15/30 minutes and turn the dome temp down to 225° and then cook to doneness.

                    On low and slow cooks I control my dome temp with the DigiQ Dx2. Are you saying to light your small fire toward the back wall of my firebox? The fan blows into the sealed bottom vent and that air bounces off the back wall of the firebox and is forced up and then circulates within the dome and then escapes out the top vent.

                    I'm thinking that after the first half hour I don't need to add wood chips and I need to reduce the dome temp to 225 and let the ribs cook low and slow until the meat retracts from the bone and they pass the tong test... The top skin breaks when i lift them with tongs.

                    Am I on the right track?
                    Last edited by Breadhead; June 2, 2015, 10:21 PM.

                    Comment


                    • docblonder
                      docblonder commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Good start. Cool meat and early smoke will absolutely work, and if you start at a higher temp with the vents open, the smoke will smell sweet. Now, big stick burners adds smoke throughout the cook, and will be ever so slightly better (to my taste). But you can cook absolutely amazing ribs with smoke in the first hour, if the fire is properly managed. And often the BGE delivers more tender meat.

                      Then I like to use a good quality lump with the DigiQ- the lump will not be acrid if the fire is slightly under-oxygenated. As to where to place the fire in the BGE, it depends on the size of the fire, if you have a water pan, and the top vent. Sometime the air will careen around the egg like a billiard shot, other times it will bypass your fire. And the air path will change during the night as the lump burns through. Given a choice, i would aim the DigiQ inlet tube at a tangent to the egg or UDS, so it tries to create a circulating pattern in the coal basket area. After the cook, you can tell by looking at the ash and lump burn pattern to see how you are doing.

                    • Breadhead
                      Breadhead commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Thanks @Docblonder... I'm going to give it a whirl tomorrow. I feel much more informed now.

                    Originally posted by SteveL View Post
                    what smoker do you have?
                    I have a pretty much standard 55 gal. UDS - I use a PartyQ with it most of the time.

                    Comment


                      Well, SteveL and gt651 I see a few of us were experimenting this past weekend thanks to docblonder 's video. I posted my fail on the what are you cooking thread. I tried a 2x1 fuse. It could not keep the temp up. I went back in and made it a 3x2 fuse which was better, but still not enough heat with 3 racks of BBs and a pork but on my 18" WSM. SteveL, your method sure looks like a winner! Thank you for posting this with your pic and result. I too was seeking to be able to run the WSM with the vents wide open. Like you, I used the old sniffer and could really smell the difference. I am going to try your coal stacking technique this weekend! THANK YOU! 6/12/15 picture added for SteveL
                      Last edited by richinlbrg; June 12, 2015, 04:03 AM.

                      Comment


                      • SteveL
                        SteveL commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Let me know how it works out Rich. I should have said in the description it was a modified snake/soo/minion - the idea was to have the charcoal burn around like the snake. When I do use the soo method, I usually light only about 15 kingsford for the middle, as the heat increases pretty quickly. This modified method is a bit slower. I did about 1/4 full chimney last time which worked well. Make sure to stack the charcoal up high - my first time I didn't and ended up having to add more. The ceramic briquettes can be a bit finicky but play around stacking them. Mine have thin edges that fit between the grill grates so I line them up 2 wide leaning in against each other to help stand up. Then I add 1 or 2 layers lying across the top so that I bring the firewall up to the height of the charcoal I want. The charcoal you add around it does a good job holding up before you add the lit charcoal, but it can be tipsy so don't move the smoker too much once you get it set. I usually smoke for about 3-4 hours for brisket or pulled pork and the fire is usually only about 1/2 way around by that time so no problems adding wood. I have also used a pair of heat-proof "ove-gloves" to rotate the mid-section of wsm around if I wanted to get at part of the fire or add wood if the hot spot had moved out of easy reach through the door.
                        Last edited by SteveL; June 11, 2015, 09:09 PM.

                      • richinlbrg
                        richinlbrg commented
                        Editing a comment
                        SteveL your method worked quite well last weekend. I do 't have any ceramic briquettes, so I used a flat rock from my garden to set up my barrier. I was able to run the WSM pretty much wide open for the entire 5+hrs I smoked. Below is a pic of my set up; I was quite happy with how it went. For next weekend, I am going to stack the briquettes higher as I am going to have more meat to cook. Thank you for your post showing me how it is done!!

                      • SteveL
                        SteveL commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Hey glad it work Rich. If you get something like the ceramic briquettes you can fill in the middle too from your photo but the flat rock does the trick.

                      richinlbrg chunks on coals doesn't smolder for you? I have always ended up with a cloud of smoke using that method. I typically dump my hot coals right on top of the chunks.

                      Comment


                      • richinlbrg
                        richinlbrg commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Ernest, I saw that in a post of yours in another thread - sounds like a good idea! I'm going to use it this weekend!

                      • SteveL
                        SteveL commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I'm going to try that Ernest. I've usually mixed in chunks with the unlit charcoal when building the soo method but I also added on top, so I have never looked for a difference. I figured that heat rises and it didn't matter. Anyone else find this makes a difference?

                      Here's a photo of white smoke and blue smoke.

                      Comment

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