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**scottranda** · April 10, 2024, 02:06 PM

Jump in all the way! I did on my offset. Buy once, cry once!

**Uncle Bob** · April 10, 2024, 02:46 PM

I would mix in the idea of how good the used market in your area is from the standpoint of calculating how "deep" you want to dive in expense wise. If the market is flooded with the Cheap Offset Smokers (COS) then, should you decide you don't care for it, you'll not recoup much of your cost, however "low" it may be. On the other hand, the more expensive, the bigger the bite on depreciation, typically 1/3 to 1/2 for the EOS. You've got the negative factor of living in dictatorial California that at any moment any device that emits smoke (they'll attack it as carbon) will be banned..........but that will apply to way more than the offset.

There are plenty of folks that will give you stories of success with a COS, and they will mean it. They are likely very determined folks, but it could be they operate from a different results standard. Whether that matches yours may be challenging to determine. If you look across the wide world of COS you'll see lots of, let's call them interesting, modifications trying to improve performance/outcomes. When I went through the thought process, even though I'm an inveterate tinkerer, I came to the conclusion that I'd rather invest a few more bucks and enjoy the more representative hardware configuration that more closely replicated the bigger units.

Don't be afraid of the used market, more often than you'd think some folks dove in before honing their basic skills and likely got overwhelmed. You can take advantage of that depreciation for your own benefit. That's what worked for me when I got my LSG for about two thirds of new cost. It had been used twice so looked and functioned like new.

Perhaps the best alternative in the middle ground would be the recently released Old Country G2 which has an MSRP of nearly $2k, though transport to CA. might kick that up a bit. There are lots of recent reviews on YT that speak favorably about it's insulated fire box and well managed airflow in particular. The one word of caution is build quality issues regarding sloppy welds from Old Country in the past. It's best if you can inspect before paying, or gamble it that fits your temperament.

There are lots of choices in the market of offsets, and following that, there are lots of stories that may or may not be as accurate as some would prefer. It's another of those items that, the more you learn, the more you learn there's more to learn.

**bmillin** · April 10, 2024, 03:02 PM

Big jump from a WSM or kettle to an offset. Not going to talk you out of it, but the offset is my last go-to after the kettle, bronco or pellet grill. I guess I just don't like tending the fire.

**PGH_RAM** · April 10, 2024, 03:44 PM

I'm currently saving up for an expensive offset smoker. I decided about a year ago that I want one.

Originally posted by Uncle Bob View Post

If you look across the wide world of COS you'll see lots of, let's call them interesting, modifications trying to improve performance/outcomes.

This is exactly what turned me off of looking at cheap offset smokers.

When I decided I wanted an offset, I looked at a lot of less expensive brands, and kept coming back to Oklahoma Joe as more than likely the best of the cheap offsets. I was looking in particular at the Bandera because I liked the built in rib racks, the ability to hang ropes of sausages, and the relatively small footprint. Every time I did a deeper dive, though, past the surface of the very devoted OKJ aficionados out there, everyone seemed to have a complaint and a list of mods they had to install to make up for cheap builds--doors not closing properly, smoke escaping between the firebox and the cooking chamber, etc. So, I started looking at places like Meadow Creek, Lang, and Yoder.

After looking at the various models, I eventually settled on the one that had all of the options I want, was a reasonable size, had a good warranty (in this case, lifetime) and which I could legitimately save up for without feeling a pinch. Her name is Beulah. She's a Yoder Loaded Wichita. https://www.yodersmokers.com/offsets...oaded-wichita/

I'll be interested to see where you go with your choices!

**Troutman** · April 10, 2024, 04:27 PM

This baby is actually for sale in Brenham Texas. Probably negotiable too since they probably have zero offers. It could be yours!! Think of the fun you could have. You'd be more popular than the Oscar Meyer Weiner Wagon!

**jfmorris** · April 10, 2024, 04:30 PM

I have an offset, something my dad designed and used to give as customer gifts back in the 1980's, welded up from stainless steel by some of the guys in his shop in Canton Georgia. I'll be the FIRST person to say (not in front of my 82 year old dad) that he did not really understand offset design. Firebox is insufficient in size is my biggest complaint, and walls are too thin. But being 304 stainless, it will outlast me. BUT, it requires a lot of work to regulate the fire. I've done many ribs, butts and briskets on it, split chickens, and so forth. But it required manning the fire every 20-30 minutes.

Moving to a KETTLE with the snake 10-12 years ago, and later the SNS was a revelation to me that smoking could be less stressful and hands on. Smoke overnight *AND SLEEP TOO*!!!! Who'da thunk it? With my SNS Kamado, its even more hands free burn time. I'll only fire up the offset for ribs or other short cooks like the Thanksgiving turkey now. Unless I just GOTTA smoke 12 butts at once. Then I won't sleep. Or I will go buy a SmokeVault 24 finally!

So I am going to say that unless you can afford a GOOD offset - one with thick metal and good construction - it's just not worth it. It will become an exercise in frustration and constant attempts to modify it to fix the inherent flaws of a cheap offset. I advise to save your money towards something decent, and don't look at any offset that is under $1000+, unless it's a good deal on a used QUALITY offset.

I used to pine after a nice offset like a Yoder Loaded Wichita, or a Lang reverse flow patio model. But I have less desire to stay up all night managing a fire for overnight smoking too, so even if I ever get a good offset, the kettle and kamado won't be going anywhere.

**realdocBBQ** · April 10, 2024, 04:59 PM

Lots and lots and lots of advice many of us could give you.

I think the offset world is a blast, I love it. It IS more work. You have to learn - but it ain't rocket science. I personally discourage the Cheap Offset idea, just because I know it can be difficult to LEARN how to do things the right way on something that has its own significant limitations in design, as well.

It's tempting to go cheap, thinking, "I'll learn as I go, and I'm not ready for a Big Boy smoker just yet - I'll get what I want when I get it all figured out." I understand this mentality, but I have seen way too many people lose the passion for cooking through struggling in the PROCESS.

Honestly, it all comes down to your budget, availability in your area and the room you have to work with. Oh, and what you want to cook on it. If you think, "I'll only ever cook one brisket or one or two pork butts at a time, I don't need anything big," then I would basically double the space you're thinking and give yourself a little room to grow. A good backyard size pit to learn on is a 24x48", ideally out of 1/4" or at least 3/16" pipe, but even more than the cook chamber (given your relatively mild climate) is the firebox. People struggle mightily with too small fireboxes, too lightweight fireboxes and such. Again, those COS forums are full of people coming up with all kinds of innovative (and sometimes harebrained) ideas to improve performance - a sign of people struggling.

I'd start with those questions above - what's your budget, what's your space look like, and how much are you going to cook on it at one time?

I'm full of all kinds of advice, and I've built a couple myself and am working on another bigger one right now. I've learned a ton about thermodynamics and the flow and concepts of cookers in the process. Honestly, I think the best choice coming out these days is The Solution from Jeremy Yoder at Mad Scientist BBQ and Frank Cox from Smokerbuilder. It's $2500. It's one of the best pits on the market, in my opinion, and I would choose that over a Yoder Wichita or any big box store available pit. It'll mean a bit of a wait, but any good, solid pit builder will have a waitlist. I know Frank personally and have worked in his shop and helped with his pits some and I know he knows his stuff. There are other options out there - I just happen to think that's the best one that is in the semi-reasonable price range. Unless you've got money to blow, there's no way I'd drop $4-5k+ on a Franklin or some of these others for now. If you're dead set on the $1000-2000 price range, the options are more limited, but there are some out there. Rehabbing an old pit someone is selling on marketplace or something is a temptation, but very often these pits I see on there have some significant design flaws that I think may make them just as undesirable (in my eyes) as a COS.

Those three questions are what I'd start with, personally. I'm happy to help anytime if you've got specific questions. Feel free to private message me, but at the same time, this information is super valuable to members and the general public at large, so I think posting it for the world to see is super valuable, too.

Just my $0.02 - before taxes...

**bmillin** · April 10, 2024, 05:15 PM

Beulah? Sorry bud but that took me right back to Porkys,

**STEbbq** · April 10, 2024, 06:03 PM

Personally. I’d start with a used offset from Lang, Klose, LSG, KBQ, Yoder, M1 Grills, or maybe Old Country. Whatever good quality brands you can find used locally. Oklahoma Joe doesn’t fit that category for offsets.

Learn if you actually do like the offset process versus the idea of the offset. Learn what you like and don’t like about your used offset and then sell it and upgrade to the ideal version.

There have been many folks here who have loved the idea of an offset only to find out the process is too frustrating or too cumbersome compared to their ideal. Then, they are usually faced with a tough decision on a very expensive purchase.

**Uncle Bob** · April 11, 2024, 09:44 AM

Just to show you how there are lots of options out there, and to underscore the notion that there is no "silver bullet" solution, here's a vid that goes into a current trend in fire box to smoke chamber heat/smoke transfer. BBQ Buyer's Guide to Scoop Baffle Offset Smokers (youtube.com)

One name for it is the "scoop baffle", wherein a solid baffle is employed to direct airflow to the top of the smoke chamber and let convection (highly influenced by exhaust collection design) dictate heat distribution. It's generally granted that Jambo pioneered the design, further endorsed by LSG first in their 20" series, and then the Texas Edition, but as the vid shows is also employed by Outlaw and the newly released "Solution" referenced above.

There's been some commentary here that a big fire box is better (some think only). For an older, simpler design that is mostly true, due primarily as a temp management tool because those older designs have either no baffle at the transfer portal, or a marginal sized one that directs heat below the main cooking grate. Another older, popular tool are baffle plates which are workable, but also contribute an additional radiant heat source that needs consideration/management.

If you look at the pictures of the fire boxes in the above referenced video they are all comparatively small and mounted higher up on the side of the cook chamber. Part of the reason for the belief in a larger fire box is to manage the intensity of the heat flow to the cook chamber. A longer fire box gives you ability to put the fire closer to the fire box door, thus further from the cook chamber. With the "scoop baffle" design that not necessarily, thus the ability to have a shorter fire box. Just goes to show, there are reasons for each/every design choice, but it helps to understand the reasoning behind it. Like I said before; the more you learn, the more you learn there's more to learn.

BTW, I disagree with the video author's criticism of flat bottom versus round fire box as regards good coal bed development. My guess is he's never used a fire management basket like the LSG one shown in his own video. Absent that tool the round is better than flat, but the basket concentrates the coal bed in a similar fashion to the round bottom with the advantage of allowing air to circulate under the coal bed as well. The key message in all that is that a proper coal bed is essential for fire management in an offset.

**Troutman** · April 11, 2024, 10:04 AM

To take Uncle Bob 's thought further, although I don't have a dog in the hunt (not an offset guy) but it seems to me that I'd look at designs that incorporate the collector box at the stack end. The Yoder being discussed is an older design with the stack attached to the top end of the cooking chamber. It promotes air movement high in the cooker instead of across the cooking grate where you want it to be.

Another more recent design that was commissioned by Goldee's BBQ and fabricated by one of Texas' master pit builders TMG, has the firebox isolated from the cook chamber. The heat is transferred from the firebox via a pipe that connects the two. The idea is you eliminate direct radiant heat at the connection point of the two chambers and only have convective heat entering over the cook which disperses it more evenly avoiding hot spots.

Of course we're talking the upper end units cost wise, but advances in what seems to be a simple design are all worth considering. At the end of the day you will have to manage your cook so having proper thermodynamics in the first place will be advantageous.

Here's Jeramy Yoder's review of the Goldee's pit as an FYI.

**N227GB** · April 11, 2024, 01:06 PM

I purchased a Brinkman Pitmaster almost 30 years ago from a regional department store. At closeout, the price was less than $150. However, no internet resources were available back then, and the manual that came with it was fundamental. So, I had to learn everything independently, which took some time.

When I downsized to Florida, I gave the smoker away; the last I heard, it was still in use. Although it has long been discontinued, it seems to have a following on the internet. In the late 90s, I saw one being used on the patio of a restaurant in Scottsdale, AZ. About ten years ago, someone visiting from out of town was smoking a Thanksgiving turkey in one near the clubhouse in my community. They had put it in the back of a pickup truck to haul it.

If someone wants to master an offset smoker, I would say go for it. However, I would caution against buying one from a big-box store. Big retailers' pressure on suppliers to reduce price points often leads to lower quality. Others here have recommended some good choices but be prepared to spend some money.

Although I am proud to have mastered an offset smoker, I have moved on. I rarely cook for more than two people, so the PBCjr and WSJ fit my lifestyle perfectly. I am trying to perfect my Q output on my Ninja Woodfire Grill, which is perfect for the lanai when afternoon tropical rain is forecast.

EDIT to add some I posted a while back:

I just pulled out my copy of Stephen Raichlin's Barbecue Bible, which I purchased when it was published in 1998.

Here's a reflection of the state of the art 25 years ago. There is no mention of temps, wrapping, or holding.

"Smoke-cook the brisket, using the indirect method, until tender enough to shred with your fingers, 5 to 8 hours. (The cooking time will depend on the size of the brisket and the heat of the grill.)

Remove the brisket from the grill and let cool for 15 minutes."

I did a lot of trial and error with the offset. It didn't have a thermometer, but I found a bimetal one at Builder's Square that fit.

**tstalafuse** · April 11, 2024, 02:24 PM

So, I started out on a COS, after a time got pretty good at producing good BBQ, but it is a LOT of work. I transitioned over to a WSM and OKJ barrel type smokers and turn out just as good BBQ with a lot less work.

A few years back, I got to thinking I missed my offset, so I searched out a quality 1/4 in steel offset that someone was parting ways with (wife sold it in a divorce, so I got a good deal). However, it wasn't the biggest I could afford, so despite the heavy metal it was just as much work as the COS. After a couple of years on not using it, I put it on Craiglist for more than I paid. If you are going to go with a heavy metal, buy the biggest one you can afford because size and volume matters in an offset as far as maintaining a constant temp. If for some reason I decided to buy another one the cook chamber would be min 20x42, but I would do everything I could to buy one that was 24x48/60.

**mrteddyprincess** · April 11, 2024, 02:43 PM

I agree with the advice above. No need to waste effort on a COS. If you already had one, I'd say, "Sure, go ahead and learn to make it work while you're saving up." But since you're saving up for a nice one, wait until you can go for 1/4 in steel. You'll be happier down the road.

(And I enjoy tending the fire in mine. It's relaxing for me and keeps me out of therapy...)

Brian

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