Not sure how many will find this useful, but online searches might draw some folks here. Another longwinded article from yours truly! lol - @realdocBBQ
I've tired a few different tricks in the last couple of years with adding wheels and tires. BTW, Amazon links in this article are affiliate links - so I might make a couple bucks if you buy any stuff from clicking on them. Doesn't cost you anything extra, but might help me out a little bit, so... just being up front so everyone knows.
Firstly, you have to decide what kind of wheel hubs you want to use. Not rims, the hubs that do the actual turning on the axle. I personally have mostly used the 4-on-4 idler hubs you can get on Amazon or various trailer-building websites, or even Ebay. These are literal 4 lug idler hubs with a 4" spacing between lugs (actually studs, not lugs). Also known as 4x101.6, I think. Other common idler hub sizes are 5x4.5 and 5x5 - these are more used on trailers and tend to fit standard trailer wheels - I think 5x4.5 is the more common, but I've used 5x5, and nice wheels can be found to fit those, as well. But the 4x4, 4-on-4 or 4x101.6 (all the same thing) are the 'standard' size for many golf carts, so they will work.
Here is a look at the idler hub - with spindle.
These are some of the ones I've bought multiple times:
Virtionz idler hubs and spindles
You can get them in singles, in pairs and in 4-packs, usually on Amazon, Ebay or places like trailerpartsunlimited.com or etrailer.com, etc. If you're buying an axle for a trailer, you probably do NOT want that axle to have 4 on 4 idler hubs, as most of the 'golf cart wheels' are not rated for highway use. For a trailer, you're going to want 5x4.5 or 5x5 hubs, so you can easily fit trailer tires on them.
Keep in mind, the idler hub is the part the wheel attaches to, as well as the bearings and such that fit inside it. The spindle (also sometimes called a 'stub') is the long solid steel portion that goes inside your axle. These can be round, usually 1¼" diameter, or square, also 1¼". The nice thing about this size is that it fits absolutely perfectly inside 1½" 11g (or 1/8" wall) tubing. Then you can plug weld them in place - more on that later. Round or square, this is what I do, plug welding. I think if they say "BT8 spindle" that's the 1¼" size.
Now... Golf cart wheels are usually 4 on 4 and will bolt up to these hubs perfectly with no modifications or adapters. I've got a couple complete sets of golf cart wheels I've picked up on Marketplace, and I thought I was going to like using them, initially. I've often seen them for $75-100 per complete set, used, slightly worn, but certainly serviceable for this purpose. Guys want to upgrade their golf carts with nicer wheels and they get rid of the stock ones a lot. They're most often 8" rims and 18" tires. Once I got them installed, I decided that they still looked smaller and 'dinkier' than I wanted, so I started looking for larger options. See this completed pic of my backyard offset (The Duk).
Now, compare this to when I changed out the wheels and tires:
Much nicer, much 'beefier' looking, in my opinion. But, a bit more work, a bit more cost.
These are ATV wheels. Purchased on Marketplace, probably for about $100 or so for the set - I don't usually spend much more than that on them, as when you start adding up costs of the additional things needed to fit them and get them functional, it can get out of hand. I'll get to that in a bit.
First things first, you have to realize ATV tires aren't made to fit 4 on 4 hubs. Most commonly, they're something like 4x137 or 4x156. So, in order to get them to fit these hubs, you'll need wheel adapters. Thankfully, there's a market for these. You won't find 4x137 or 4x156 idler hubs and spindles - or at least, I haven't found them. The adapters can be found on Ebay and Amazon, and you'll need to search for 4on4 (or 4x101.6) to 4x137 or 4x156 adapters to make sure you get the right ones. Here's a pair of 4on4 to 4x156 adapters on Amazon. I think the "4on4" is the 'base' size (meaning what fits onto your idler hub) and the second number is what your wheel is. They also come in various thicknesses, from 1" to 1½" to 2". This comes into play depending on your wheels - one set I had, they had covered centers and when I went to install them with a 1" adapter, I found that the center of the idler hub still butted up against the backside of the wheel. Argh! So I ended up having to buy a SECOND set (these were just SPACERS, not adapters) of 4x137 1" spacers to clear them. So that one ended up with a 4on4 hub, a 4x137 1" adapter, then a 4x137 1" spacer, then the wheels. You also have to figure in the DEPTH of your wheels (i.e., "deep dish" rims essentially) when you're calculating how long you need to make your axle for a yard card, along with the width of your tires, to build your pit to fit through things like gates and such.
So, it's helpful to have your wheels and hubs and adapters picked out and decided on for your build before doing much else in terms of fabbing your yard cart.
So, as you can see, we're starting to add up in cost for something like this, right? Let's say you pick up a set of idler hubs (around $150-200), then a set of ATV wheels & tires you've gotten on Marketplace ($100-200), THEN a set of wheel adapters (maybe $100-150) - and already you're at a minimum of $350, and as much as $550-600.
But wait! There's more! Yes... truly....
One thing I've learned about buying wheels and tires on Marketplace (usually my best source) is that often these used ATV tires have been abused - this is why the person is often getting rid of them. So they may very well have holes and plugs, and once you DO get them mounted, they won't hold air more than a couple of days. This is really frustrating, and keep in mind, you have to have these things hold air for MONTHS or even a year or more. Guys will be perturbed having to air up the tires on their smoker - most of us don't keep an air tank or compressor in the backyard. On an ATV, it's sometimes not a big deal, it's kept out in the shop or something, and guys don't mind airing them up before taking it out. But in the backyard, it's a bit more of a hassle. You can leave 'em sitting there flat, but... it looks kinda st00pid having big mean-looking tires on your backyard smoker, but when one or two are flat, it's annoying - plus, it throws off the 'level' of your pit and can affect grease runoff, racks sliding, firebox door not standing open, etc.
So what do you do once you've gotten a nice set of tires, but then find out they won't hold air??? Well, I've gone to the trouble of having all the tires reseated by a tire shop to get the beads cleaned up and properly seated - but that's ANOTHER $60+ (even paid $100 one time, OOF!) and even then, there's no guarantee. Dammit! And nothing sucks worse than going to that trouble, pulling them OFF your smoker, taking them to the tire shop, paying to get the tires remounted, then bringing them home, putting them BACK on your smoker and finding out tomorrow morning it was all a waste and they STILL won't hold air! SHEESH!
Well, what I've taken to doing is just buying tubes for these ATV tires. It's another up front cost, but will save you more in hassle, time and headache over the longrun, I think. Tubes may not be the greatest for an ATV, longterm, but for a smoker, they're perfect! This thing isn't ever going to be run high speed anywhere, not going to be going through ditches, woods and fields, etc., - they JUST need to hold air! And do it for a LONG time! So I've started doing this. Buying tubes from Amazon to have them installed in the ATV tires has been a lifesaver for me.
I've developed a relationship with a local tire shop run by a bunch of Hispanic guys which is cheaper than my previous place I went (the ones that charged me $100!), and I can usually get all 4 tubes put in for $60, sometimes $40, and it usually only takes an hour - I usually run to the carwash or WalMart and then come back, whereas with the 'fancier' tire shop, I have to drop them and usually wait all day - it's a low-priority job for them. No more headaches, no more worrying about, "Is this plug going to hold or leak slowly over days or weeks?" It's just best to buy them up front and plan on that cost. You can get a 2-pack of TYK tubes for front and a different size 2-pack for the rear, usually $35 and $45 or so. Ok, plus installation, you're looking at... maybe another $100-150 in tubes and install.
2-pack of TYK ATV tire tubes
Holy crap, right!?!??!
Now... let's add up costs of this whole endeavor. This is a typical cost for what I've done in the past.
Idler hubs (4) - $150-200
ATV wheels/tires (4) - $100-200 on Marketplace
Bolt pattern adapters (4) - $100-150 on Amazon or Ebay
Tire tubes (4) - $75-100 on Amazon
Installation - $60-100 at local tire shop
-----------------------------------------
Total cost - $485-750 based on my experiences
Wowzers!!! Not cheap to add big nice tires to your backyard smoker, is it???
So... if you start out from the get-go planning on just buying a NEW set of NICE golf cart tires, you can actually save yourself a lot of hassle, time and effort by just going with those, and some hubs & spindles.
You can get some fancy golf cart 14" wheels with 23" tires like these (ATV tires are usually 24-26" or so) brand new for usually $500-700, sometimes you can get better deals. Even as low as $400 for 4 brand new, smaller ones - like 10-inch wheels, 20" tires, that kinda thing. You still gotta buy the hubs and spindles, but can skip the adapters, the tubes, the tire shop, etc. So , for $600-800, you can be off and running with 'fancy' wheels and tires made for golf carts and not worry about the ATV wheel adapting crap.
But... I still find myself searching Marketplace and finding wheels all the time, thinking to myself, "Hey, those look nice, I can make those things work out!" 🤣 Yes, yes I can. But... be careful and DON'T spend more than $100-200 ABSOLUTE MAX on them, or you're going to end up spending more doing the 'adapting' than if you'd just bought straight up golf cart wheels and tires anyways. 🤬
Ok, last little bit - how to get the hubs and spindles welded into your axles? Personally, I've used square or rectangular tubing most often. I picked up a load of 2"x1½" 11g tubing a long time back, and I've been using that. Well, if I'd had just 1½" 11g square, it woulda been easier, but this is what I found. So, I just drill holes in 3 sides and plug weld the spindles in to 3 sides rather than 4 - making sure the spindle is butted up square and evenly against the one shorter side. It's fine, again, this isn't something running down the road, it just needs to hold up in a yard cart. But if it isn't welded in square, your wheel is going to be off - it's going to look like it has negative camber on your smoker - maybe that's what you want, though hey???
Here's an axle I made of that 1½"x2" tubing where I've drilled the holes for plug welding the spindles in place:
Lotta lotta measuring and trying to get it all right, gotta measure 3x, no, 4x, drill once. And I've screwed up more than one because I drilled the holes in the wrong side or something. Gotta take your time, gotta mark it up, use a punch to mark the spots to use your drill press, etc. It's a bit of a pain - honestly, in the future, I'll just buy 1½" square tubing to alleviate all the hassle and some wasted material, etc. You live and you learn, right? That's why I'm writing THIS MISSIVE - to hopefully help ya'll save some of the frustrations I'VE experienced in learning this stuff!
Spindles welded in place - make sure to leave a sixteenth or something between the backside of the hub and your axle so they don't rub.
^^^^This was obviously the one when I had to use 2 sets of adapters/spacers. It came out looking sweet with these wheels, though:
Honestly, though... in the future, I will most likely end up just buying golf cart wheels and tires, paying a little more (not a lot as you can see) and avoiding the hassles associated with ATV wheels and tires. UNLESS, I get a set for free or super cheap, or they're just awesome looking and I really WANT them.
****Let me warn you**** - If you see some on Marketplace and you're contacting someone about them, DO NOT BE AFRAID to offer a little less, do NOT be 'guilted' into paying more for them than $100-200 at ALL. Seriously - lots of guys will pull the old, "Man, these things would be $1000 if you bought them from the dealer!" Yeah, ok, cool... I get that. Not debating that. IDGAS if they're BRAND NEW AND SHINY! But for ME, for MY purposes, if I pay more than $200, I'm actually cutting my own throat. It's JUST. NOT. WORTH. IT. Don't be guilted. Think of your costs, what you need to buy and do to adapt them to your purposes, etc. Let him sell them to someone else who has an ATV they can just bolt them up to. Fine. For smoker building, it doesn't make sense to pay ANY more for them than $100-200, in my opinion. None. Anything more, and you REALLY are getting into the "just buy fancy new golf cart wheels" territory.
One more time, too - make sure you factor in ALL the measurements when you're building your axles! The wheel and the depth of it, where your hub is going to sit inside the wheel, the spacers or bolt pattern adapters AND the width of your axle. And leaving enough space between the backside of your wheel and your firebox, especially if it's not insulated.
Here's the last one I built with open-center wheels.
I absolutely LOVE the look of big beefy mean-looking tires on a backyard pit. That's just me. And it's strictly an aesthetic thing, I think. I don't find it any easier to pull around a yard than the smaller golf cart wheels (18x8). Probably because of the added weight. But they look damned cool! lol
I really, really hope this helps some of you guys - this is all the stuff I've gathered over a couple of years of building some of these and all the researching and such I've done. Feel free to hit me up if you've got questions, for sure, I'm always willing to help out!
I've tired a few different tricks in the last couple of years with adding wheels and tires. BTW, Amazon links in this article are affiliate links - so I might make a couple bucks if you buy any stuff from clicking on them. Doesn't cost you anything extra, but might help me out a little bit, so... just being up front so everyone knows.
Firstly, you have to decide what kind of wheel hubs you want to use. Not rims, the hubs that do the actual turning on the axle. I personally have mostly used the 4-on-4 idler hubs you can get on Amazon or various trailer-building websites, or even Ebay. These are literal 4 lug idler hubs with a 4" spacing between lugs (actually studs, not lugs). Also known as 4x101.6, I think. Other common idler hub sizes are 5x4.5 and 5x5 - these are more used on trailers and tend to fit standard trailer wheels - I think 5x4.5 is the more common, but I've used 5x5, and nice wheels can be found to fit those, as well. But the 4x4, 4-on-4 or 4x101.6 (all the same thing) are the 'standard' size for many golf carts, so they will work.
Here is a look at the idler hub - with spindle.
These are some of the ones I've bought multiple times:
Virtionz idler hubs and spindles
You can get them in singles, in pairs and in 4-packs, usually on Amazon, Ebay or places like trailerpartsunlimited.com or etrailer.com, etc. If you're buying an axle for a trailer, you probably do NOT want that axle to have 4 on 4 idler hubs, as most of the 'golf cart wheels' are not rated for highway use. For a trailer, you're going to want 5x4.5 or 5x5 hubs, so you can easily fit trailer tires on them.
Keep in mind, the idler hub is the part the wheel attaches to, as well as the bearings and such that fit inside it. The spindle (also sometimes called a 'stub') is the long solid steel portion that goes inside your axle. These can be round, usually 1¼" diameter, or square, also 1¼". The nice thing about this size is that it fits absolutely perfectly inside 1½" 11g (or 1/8" wall) tubing. Then you can plug weld them in place - more on that later. Round or square, this is what I do, plug welding. I think if they say "BT8 spindle" that's the 1¼" size.
Now... Golf cart wheels are usually 4 on 4 and will bolt up to these hubs perfectly with no modifications or adapters. I've got a couple complete sets of golf cart wheels I've picked up on Marketplace, and I thought I was going to like using them, initially. I've often seen them for $75-100 per complete set, used, slightly worn, but certainly serviceable for this purpose. Guys want to upgrade their golf carts with nicer wheels and they get rid of the stock ones a lot. They're most often 8" rims and 18" tires. Once I got them installed, I decided that they still looked smaller and 'dinkier' than I wanted, so I started looking for larger options. See this completed pic of my backyard offset (The Duk).
Now, compare this to when I changed out the wheels and tires:
Much nicer, much 'beefier' looking, in my opinion. But, a bit more work, a bit more cost.
These are ATV wheels. Purchased on Marketplace, probably for about $100 or so for the set - I don't usually spend much more than that on them, as when you start adding up costs of the additional things needed to fit them and get them functional, it can get out of hand. I'll get to that in a bit.
First things first, you have to realize ATV tires aren't made to fit 4 on 4 hubs. Most commonly, they're something like 4x137 or 4x156. So, in order to get them to fit these hubs, you'll need wheel adapters. Thankfully, there's a market for these. You won't find 4x137 or 4x156 idler hubs and spindles - or at least, I haven't found them. The adapters can be found on Ebay and Amazon, and you'll need to search for 4on4 (or 4x101.6) to 4x137 or 4x156 adapters to make sure you get the right ones. Here's a pair of 4on4 to 4x156 adapters on Amazon. I think the "4on4" is the 'base' size (meaning what fits onto your idler hub) and the second number is what your wheel is. They also come in various thicknesses, from 1" to 1½" to 2". This comes into play depending on your wheels - one set I had, they had covered centers and when I went to install them with a 1" adapter, I found that the center of the idler hub still butted up against the backside of the wheel. Argh! So I ended up having to buy a SECOND set (these were just SPACERS, not adapters) of 4x137 1" spacers to clear them. So that one ended up with a 4on4 hub, a 4x137 1" adapter, then a 4x137 1" spacer, then the wheels. You also have to figure in the DEPTH of your wheels (i.e., "deep dish" rims essentially) when you're calculating how long you need to make your axle for a yard card, along with the width of your tires, to build your pit to fit through things like gates and such.
So, it's helpful to have your wheels and hubs and adapters picked out and decided on for your build before doing much else in terms of fabbing your yard cart.
So, as you can see, we're starting to add up in cost for something like this, right? Let's say you pick up a set of idler hubs (around $150-200), then a set of ATV wheels & tires you've gotten on Marketplace ($100-200), THEN a set of wheel adapters (maybe $100-150) - and already you're at a minimum of $350, and as much as $550-600.
But wait! There's more! Yes... truly....
One thing I've learned about buying wheels and tires on Marketplace (usually my best source) is that often these used ATV tires have been abused - this is why the person is often getting rid of them. So they may very well have holes and plugs, and once you DO get them mounted, they won't hold air more than a couple of days. This is really frustrating, and keep in mind, you have to have these things hold air for MONTHS or even a year or more. Guys will be perturbed having to air up the tires on their smoker - most of us don't keep an air tank or compressor in the backyard. On an ATV, it's sometimes not a big deal, it's kept out in the shop or something, and guys don't mind airing them up before taking it out. But in the backyard, it's a bit more of a hassle. You can leave 'em sitting there flat, but... it looks kinda st00pid having big mean-looking tires on your backyard smoker, but when one or two are flat, it's annoying - plus, it throws off the 'level' of your pit and can affect grease runoff, racks sliding, firebox door not standing open, etc.
So what do you do once you've gotten a nice set of tires, but then find out they won't hold air??? Well, I've gone to the trouble of having all the tires reseated by a tire shop to get the beads cleaned up and properly seated - but that's ANOTHER $60+ (even paid $100 one time, OOF!) and even then, there's no guarantee. Dammit! And nothing sucks worse than going to that trouble, pulling them OFF your smoker, taking them to the tire shop, paying to get the tires remounted, then bringing them home, putting them BACK on your smoker and finding out tomorrow morning it was all a waste and they STILL won't hold air! SHEESH!
Well, what I've taken to doing is just buying tubes for these ATV tires. It's another up front cost, but will save you more in hassle, time and headache over the longrun, I think. Tubes may not be the greatest for an ATV, longterm, but for a smoker, they're perfect! This thing isn't ever going to be run high speed anywhere, not going to be going through ditches, woods and fields, etc., - they JUST need to hold air! And do it for a LONG time! So I've started doing this. Buying tubes from Amazon to have them installed in the ATV tires has been a lifesaver for me.
I've developed a relationship with a local tire shop run by a bunch of Hispanic guys which is cheaper than my previous place I went (the ones that charged me $100!), and I can usually get all 4 tubes put in for $60, sometimes $40, and it usually only takes an hour - I usually run to the carwash or WalMart and then come back, whereas with the 'fancier' tire shop, I have to drop them and usually wait all day - it's a low-priority job for them. No more headaches, no more worrying about, "Is this plug going to hold or leak slowly over days or weeks?" It's just best to buy them up front and plan on that cost. You can get a 2-pack of TYK tubes for front and a different size 2-pack for the rear, usually $35 and $45 or so. Ok, plus installation, you're looking at... maybe another $100-150 in tubes and install.
2-pack of TYK ATV tire tubes
Holy crap, right!?!??!
Now... let's add up costs of this whole endeavor. This is a typical cost for what I've done in the past.
Idler hubs (4) - $150-200
ATV wheels/tires (4) - $100-200 on Marketplace
Bolt pattern adapters (4) - $100-150 on Amazon or Ebay
Tire tubes (4) - $75-100 on Amazon
Installation - $60-100 at local tire shop
-----------------------------------------
Total cost - $485-750 based on my experiences
Wowzers!!! Not cheap to add big nice tires to your backyard smoker, is it???
So... if you start out from the get-go planning on just buying a NEW set of NICE golf cart tires, you can actually save yourself a lot of hassle, time and effort by just going with those, and some hubs & spindles.
You can get some fancy golf cart 14" wheels with 23" tires like these (ATV tires are usually 24-26" or so) brand new for usually $500-700, sometimes you can get better deals. Even as low as $400 for 4 brand new, smaller ones - like 10-inch wheels, 20" tires, that kinda thing. You still gotta buy the hubs and spindles, but can skip the adapters, the tubes, the tire shop, etc. So , for $600-800, you can be off and running with 'fancy' wheels and tires made for golf carts and not worry about the ATV wheel adapting crap.
But... I still find myself searching Marketplace and finding wheels all the time, thinking to myself, "Hey, those look nice, I can make those things work out!" 🤣 Yes, yes I can. But... be careful and DON'T spend more than $100-200 ABSOLUTE MAX on them, or you're going to end up spending more doing the 'adapting' than if you'd just bought straight up golf cart wheels and tires anyways. 🤬
Ok, last little bit - how to get the hubs and spindles welded into your axles? Personally, I've used square or rectangular tubing most often. I picked up a load of 2"x1½" 11g tubing a long time back, and I've been using that. Well, if I'd had just 1½" 11g square, it woulda been easier, but this is what I found. So, I just drill holes in 3 sides and plug weld the spindles in to 3 sides rather than 4 - making sure the spindle is butted up square and evenly against the one shorter side. It's fine, again, this isn't something running down the road, it just needs to hold up in a yard cart. But if it isn't welded in square, your wheel is going to be off - it's going to look like it has negative camber on your smoker - maybe that's what you want, though hey???
Here's an axle I made of that 1½"x2" tubing where I've drilled the holes for plug welding the spindles in place:
Lotta lotta measuring and trying to get it all right, gotta measure 3x, no, 4x, drill once. And I've screwed up more than one because I drilled the holes in the wrong side or something. Gotta take your time, gotta mark it up, use a punch to mark the spots to use your drill press, etc. It's a bit of a pain - honestly, in the future, I'll just buy 1½" square tubing to alleviate all the hassle and some wasted material, etc. You live and you learn, right? That's why I'm writing THIS MISSIVE - to hopefully help ya'll save some of the frustrations I'VE experienced in learning this stuff!
Spindles welded in place - make sure to leave a sixteenth or something between the backside of the hub and your axle so they don't rub.
^^^^This was obviously the one when I had to use 2 sets of adapters/spacers. It came out looking sweet with these wheels, though:
Honestly, though... in the future, I will most likely end up just buying golf cart wheels and tires, paying a little more (not a lot as you can see) and avoiding the hassles associated with ATV wheels and tires. UNLESS, I get a set for free or super cheap, or they're just awesome looking and I really WANT them.
****Let me warn you**** - If you see some on Marketplace and you're contacting someone about them, DO NOT BE AFRAID to offer a little less, do NOT be 'guilted' into paying more for them than $100-200 at ALL. Seriously - lots of guys will pull the old, "Man, these things would be $1000 if you bought them from the dealer!" Yeah, ok, cool... I get that. Not debating that. IDGAS if they're BRAND NEW AND SHINY! But for ME, for MY purposes, if I pay more than $200, I'm actually cutting my own throat. It's JUST. NOT. WORTH. IT. Don't be guilted. Think of your costs, what you need to buy and do to adapt them to your purposes, etc. Let him sell them to someone else who has an ATV they can just bolt them up to. Fine. For smoker building, it doesn't make sense to pay ANY more for them than $100-200, in my opinion. None. Anything more, and you REALLY are getting into the "just buy fancy new golf cart wheels" territory.
One more time, too - make sure you factor in ALL the measurements when you're building your axles! The wheel and the depth of it, where your hub is going to sit inside the wheel, the spacers or bolt pattern adapters AND the width of your axle. And leaving enough space between the backside of your wheel and your firebox, especially if it's not insulated.
Here's the last one I built with open-center wheels.
I absolutely LOVE the look of big beefy mean-looking tires on a backyard pit. That's just me. And it's strictly an aesthetic thing, I think. I don't find it any easier to pull around a yard than the smaller golf cart wheels (18x8). Probably because of the added weight. But they look damned cool! lol
I really, really hope this helps some of you guys - this is all the stuff I've gathered over a couple of years of building some of these and all the researching and such I've done. Feel free to hit me up if you've got questions, for sure, I'm always willing to help out!
