Question to the gods, the bell curve of smoking, and how much for how long

[Grilgrate]

First of all, I wanted any of you guys reading this to understand that before asking this question I took the time to try to find the answer myself first at this site, but alas I couldn't find it, so here goes.

Now I know there are a lot of variables here, so I'll just create a scenario.

Let's say you have two pork butts, one 5 pounder the other an 8 pounder, they are both the same refrigerator temperature when you put them on an indirect heat source - let's say charcoal and wood chunks- at a steady 225F with good blue smoke, now I understand that cook time should be somewhere around 6 to 10 hours for both, but my question is, how long for the smoking part of this?

Now I fully understand that the answer to the smoke part of this question may be somewhat variable, such as how much smoke (how intense) one person may want their meat to be versus another, but it also seems there has to be some kind of general rule about this, how far into the meat does smoke flavor actually penetrate?

I'm not talking about the creation of a smoke ring here, as I now know it is primarily aesthetic and doesn't really contribute to the flavor of the meat, I'm talking specifically about how long do you really need to smoke?

Again using the pork butts mentioned above is an example, would it be one hour, two hours, three hours or what? Or put another way, does it take X number of hours for each inch of meat that needs to be penetrated with smoke (which would mean that all things being equal a 5 pound pork butt would be completely smoked before the 8 pound pork butt would be) OR, does smoking only penetrate meat so deep anyway, and it would not really matter much (remember were talking optimal smoke flavor here, not several more hours of smoking for just a 10% increase in smoke flavor) you smoked it past a certain amount of time, it's not really going to get much smokier.

It is to the great God's of all things barbecue (you guys) that I humbly seek the answer to this PORKplexing question.

[kmhfive]

No matter how hard we try as engineers, all things are never even close to equal.

No expert myself, but I have noticed that I can still add smoke flavor to meat long after it "should have" been "smoked out" by adding moisture. I have noticed some folks cook their meat in a water bath (SV, not boiled) and then add smoke when the meat is mostly done already.

My my goal is to develop a consistent enough cooking method that I can change one variable at a time and by the time my grandkids are having kids, I'll know what to do to make my wife happy. 🙄

[Steve B]

Good luck on the last part. I gave up a long time ago. Ha

[Grilgrate]

Thanks kmhfive! And VERY funny Steve B!

[Notavegan]

Grilgrate I believe/think/pretty sure I've read a bunch of times that smoke will adhere to meat the most during the first couple hours of cooking. My brother adds smoke (wood chips or chunks) a few times per hour, for hours and hours of cook time. His meat kind of tastes like a carcinogen when its done. So yes it is personal preference how much smoke you want. As much as I try to explain the thin blew whisps of smoke being the goal and not clouds and clouds, he prefers the clouds...

So for your double pork butt example I think if you smoke for the first 2 or 3 hours it may absorb as much smoke flavor as its going to, short of cold smoking meat which is a different deal entirely.

Signed, hardly an expert, just what I think I have learned.

[EdF]

What he said. Lower temp going on makes it stick better too.

[Grilgrate]

Thank's dude.

[Breadhead]

Hmmm... I'm not an engineer or a Chef. I'm a cook that learns as I go.

From what I remember... smoke doesn't penetrate the meat, it attaches to the surface of the meat. You can prepare your meat and cooking chamber to make your meat more receptive to absorbing the smoke flavor that flows by it. You do this by introducing your meat into the cooking chamber at refrigerator temperatures, 38° or close to that. You place your food in the cooking chamber at a low cooking temperature to start, I use 200° as a starting temp. Then rumor has it that smoke adheres to a wet surface better than a dry surface. Rumor also has it that you're going to get the majority of the smoke flavor in the first couple of hours of your cook. At one time I think Meathead implied that after the interior temperature of your meat reaches 160° you would not get much more smoke flavor sticking to the surface of your meat. Maybe spritzing your meat after the 160° IT changes that, I'm not sure.

That's kind of the info I use when I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to get the proper amount of smoke flavor onto my meat. I cook in a Kamado and a 26" Weber kettle with the SnS and I use the same information for both cookers. I do use a smoke pot in my BGE though.

Another thing that Meathead said that really stuck in my brain was... "Treat smoke flavor like you would salt". If you apply just the right amount of salt to your food it will greatly enhance the overall flavor of your food. If you use to much salt on your food you will taste nothing but the salt." I think of that often when I'm preparing to smoke a big hunk of meat.

I decide how many wood chucks I want to use in this cook, by weight, and when those wood chucks are used up I don't add wood.

[Ernest]

When using a WSM, I've never added more wood after the initial chunks have burnt out. You'll still get smoke flavor from the briguettes through out the cooking process. May not be flavored but it's smoke nonetheless.

[Grilgrate]

Thank you Ernest!

[Huskee]

Grilgrate Smoke doesn't penetrate far at all. View it as a vehicle going down a roadway in summer, with bugs hitting the grill and windshield. The longer you drive, the more bugs build up. Smoke is similar, the particle sort of cling to the surface. The gases and heat penetrate, but not the flavor particles. The longer the meat's in the smoke's path, the more smoke adheres. Eventually as the meat gets dry and hot, less sticks and more blows on by.

I'd suggest you view our video interview with Dr Blonder on smoke here, it will explain a lot of this and much much more. I leave my meat in the smoke until after the stall- this is the same with brisket, butts, & chucks. I wrap them after the stall. Ribs go nekkid the whole way. Never too smokey (for me), with a properly controlled fire. The video will touch on that as well.

[Gooner-que]

I like the bugs on windshield analogy.

[CurlingDog]

agreed @Nathaniel Schmidt... although if you follow through the progress of the analogy...
1) do you get more bugs if you drive low and slow; less bugs if you drive really really fast?
2) mopping meat is like running your car through the car wash?
3) ...

[Grilgrate]

Thank you VERY much Huskee, and thanks also for the video, just one other thing though, you say "I leave the meat in the smoke until after the stall- this is the same with brisket, butts, & chucks. I wrap them after the stall." but if you do that, how do you get a bark? Doesn't the meat have to be open (uncovered) to get a good bark?

[TheCountofQ]

Usually you would have your bark by the time the stall is complete. Many wait till they have the bark they want, then wrap. Usually somewhere within the stall or after.

[Breadhead]

Some people NEVER wrap...👍 The bark stays the way it was put on.😜

[Huskee]

The thing about foil is it doesn't remove bark, but it may soften it. I like to make sure I have plenty for me before wrapping, that way it's still great upon unwrapping. That's usually at the 170-180 IT range for me. I don't like it so hard that it's like jerky but instead I like a happy balance. I have a lot of pictures I could share showing what the bark looks like after unwrapping & slicing following this method.

[Hawkce541]

Here's an awesome tutorial with other links from Mr. T. He has taught me a lot.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/139474/understanding-smoke-management-updated-12-08-14

[Marshieo]

I have seriously checked all over the site to begin a new thread to ask a question and have failed so am just interjecting here. I apologise. My question is relative to some degree because I am smoking a pork butt (actually 5). This is only my second time to smoke. I cooked a 7lb. butt two weeks ago and with beginners luck it turned out fabulous! It was so good that my daughter-in-law asked me to cook 5 for her mother's surprise birthday party this Sunday. I cooked two 7.5 lb'ers yesterday and my husband took them off accidentally an hour or two early (I think). That being said after reading this site for hours today I am about to head out for a digital thermometer because I certainly don't want to be driving the car at night without headlights. I have 2 more butts in now and I now know I need to make sure they get up to 190 to 205 degrees. PROBLEM; I need to head over to my son's and check the doneness of the two I did yesterday and see if they will easily pull as I kept them while for better shelf life. If they are not easily pulled can I smoke them again without killing them i.e., making them too dry? Yip, I'm a newbie and you can tell! Thank you in advance for giving me direction on not only the pork butt rescue but where to properly ask a question.

[Spinaker]

I have seriously checked all over the site to begin a new thread to ask a question and have failed so am just interjecting here. I apologise. My question is relative to some degree because I am smoking a pork butt (actually 5). This is only my second time to smoke. I cooked a 7lb. butt two weeks ago and with beginners luck it turned out fabulous! It was so good that my daughter-in-law asked me to cook 5 for her mother's surprise birthday party this Sunday. I cooked two 7.5 lb'ers yesterday and my husband took them off accidentally an hour or two early (I think). That being said after reading this site for hours today I am about to head out for a digital thermometer because I certainly don't want to be driving the car at night without headlights. I have 2 more butts in now and I now know I need to make sure they get up to 190 to 205 degrees. PROBLEM; I need to head over to my son's and check the doneness of the two I did yesterday and see if they will easily pull as I kept them while for better shelf life. If they are not easily pulled can I smoke them again without killing them i.e., making them too dry? Yip, I'm a newbie and you can tell! Thank you in advance for giving me direction on not only the pork butt rescue but where to properly ask a question.

Welcome! You can wrap them in foil and reheat them in the oven at 350 F. The problem is once they have cooled (The ones you did yesterday) they will be a bit tough to pull because the fat has congealed. So you may not really be able to tell very easily. That being said, you should be able to get an idea of how tender it is even when they are cold. It should still pull apart, but with a little more effort. If the meat tears, then more than likely they were under cooked. I would throw them in the oven and reheat up to at least 165 F.

At this temp, you will be able to tell if they are tender enough or not for you. If not, wrap them up again, tightly, add some butter or a cup of apple juice to add a little moisture, and take them up to 200 F to ensure tenderness. If they are wrapped with added butter or juice, you should be fine.

[fzxdoc]

Marshieo , to add to @Spinaker's excellent advice, even if you don't have an instant-read and/or digital thermometer (but get one soon!) as soon as meat is probe tender--that is, if when you stick a thin metal probe into it, the probe inserts as smoothly as it's going into a pound of butter, then the meat is done. That may occur at 195, 200, 205, etc. degrees.

And relax, pork butts are very forgiving, and almost always taste great no matter how we abuse them with our eagerness to have a good smoking experience. Ask me how I know.

Kathryn

[LA Pork Butt]

Marshieo i am not sure if this will answer all your question, but this is based on what I have read and my experience.

1. Cook time is based on the thickness of the meat, whether the Butts has at least an inch separating them, and whether you are cooking with the meat close together on two levels. When I do Butts that are 6” thick they typically take 12-14 hours at 225. If I cook on two levels close together they can take another 10 hours.

2. There are different theories about final internal temperature, but my practice has been to pull them at 200, wrap them in foil and hold them in an ice chest for 2 hours before pulling. I have never been disappointed,

3. If I understand you correctly you have two Butts cooked at you son’s, but are uncertain if they are done enough to be pulled. I would say that if they aren’t done wrap them and finish them in the oven. They probably have taken all the smoke they can.

Good luck.

[RonB]

I have nothing to add Marshieo , but welcome to The Pit.

[mountainsmoker]

Welcome. I have used about every apparatus there is to smoke on but now that I am retired and there is jus two of us I am back to my Weber kettle with all the goodie on it. I use a wood chunk that gives me exactly one hour of smoke I found a long time ago. So I can switch flavors during a smoke. I find that using a water pan over the coals helps keep the smoke adhere to the meat longer. I found that a perfect smoke with these chunks that a smoke half way through provided plenty of smoke flavor. So 5 hrs for butts, 3 for St. Louis ribs7-8 for brisket, what ever you want for chicken and turkey.