Pellet smoker with accurate ambient air temps?

[pondguy]

A little background... I've been grilling/smoking for 40 years with charcoal, gas, electric, etc, but all needed a fair amount of setup and monitoring. But it was getting time for a new grill that led me to Meathead's cookbook for some research. About a year ago, I bought a Traeger Silverton 620. The guy was a good salesman - with the automatic ambient air sensor, it was "set and forget" and you just had to monitor the pellets. And it would get to 500 degrees so that it was possible to use it as a normal grill too. He sold me. I've been using it pretty constantly - 2 to 3 times a week - grilling and smoking everything. I've done the normal grilling stuff but also smoking everything from over 50 pounds of Meathead's amazing bacon, half a dozen briskets, pork shoulders, tenderloins, ribs, etc... I loved the ease of getting things started and could really concentrate on meat prep. But EVERYTHING - especially smoking - seemed to take a LOT longer than it should. Ribs never seemed to get to temp and I always ended up finishing in the oven. Actually, nothing finished in the time range it should have. I thought maybe it was because I'm at 6000 feet of elevation. 3 weeks ago, after another attempt at ribs that took over 8 hours, I decided to check temps while the ribs finished in the oven. I hooked an air temp sensor up to my Thermoworks (NOT meat thermometer) and put the probe 1/4" away from the Traeger ambient air thermocouple. Well, to my surprise, when the Traeger is set at 225 degrees, the Thermoworks air probe says the internal temp was only 180 degrees! Kind of hard to get ribs to 200 degrees if the ambient air is only 180! Elevation may contribute to longer times - you expect that at higher altitudes, but having a cold cooking envelope - when you're being told differently - makes cooking impossible.

OK, maybe the thermocouple was defective. I ordered a new one and installed it this weekend. I gave the Traeger a good cleaning and a proper post-cleaning seasoning then replaced the thermocouple. The next day, I started testing and the results were worse. I did various temp settings and moved the 3rd party probe all over inside giving everything 15 to 20 minutes to get back in sync. The Traeger was ALWAYS registering 30 to 50 degrees hotter than it actually was inside. I then did a few racks of ribs but this time smoked them using the temp from the 3rd party probe. I had to turn the Traeger up to 260 to get a consistent 225 cooking temp. This time everything came out just fine, in the time range expected, and the ribs were juicy and perfect. So the smoker is usable, but it's hardly "set and forget".

So now I am wondering. Do ALL smokers behave this way? Is it a problem with digital/PID displays on smokers? Or is there a smoker out there where the temp you set it to is at least close? Has anyone else done some testing? Is this in the reviews? I'd like to get a more accurate smoker/grill next summer.

[ifican]

Very good question and something everyone should check on / do. My kamado default is solid. I check it from time to time, my pellet grill i only checked when i first got it as a reference of the differing temps around the grill surface based on set temp. Its was close enough i dont run an ambient sensor. Though i do monitor cook times. If i ever end up in a situation where cooks are routinely taking longer than they should i will test again but until then its status quo for us.

[Jerod Broussard]

I don't pay attention to the air probe in my Grid Iron. I've put an air probe next to the smoker's air probe and they are dead on. The issue is, the smoker's air probe is near the hopper and I got like 3ft of smoker going towards the chimney that runs hotter than what is going on near the hopper. So I just use my own probe to set things around the middle of the smoker and adjust temp based on that, and NOT what the smoker probe claims the temp to be.

[RiverJeff]

Man another cool kid on the block with a Grid iron, Where do you set your other probe in the grand picture of things, I have the other shelves so I have mine right in the middle on the very bottom surface grate in a stand above the fire pot location. Brent over the phone and I were able to adjust the key pad to match +- 5 degrees. 180~450.

[Jerod Broussard]

RiverJeff somewhere around the 50-60 yard line. Middle shelf of the pro shelf set.

[ItsAllGoneToTheDogs]

MAK has a roaming thermocouple, I never use it but for those concerned you plop it on the grate near your food and bobs your uncle...

When I test my thermocouple I generally clip that 3rd party probe right on the thermocouple. While the Fireboard gives instant live data and sometimes is off a degree or two from my MAK they average out as correct.

My personal opinion is people should check the thermocouple a few times and then ignore it. Once you know it's right, adjust your set temp to maintain the grate temp you want. You'll be much happier. Only time dead on accuracy really matters is baking IMO, everything else I just let ride and only worry about IT.

[GolfGeezer]

Ditto with my MAK. I used the roaming thermocouple for about a year always with my FireBoard ambient probe to check things. I’m dim, but I finally figured out that once I knew what the ambient was using the FB either on the upper shelf or main grate, I just set the controller to whatever yielded the ambient I wanted. Usually set to 250 which yields about that on the main grate and 270ish on the upper.

[captainlee]

My Yoder holds a good constant temperature and it has been accurate when I have added probes to double check. I too am at altitude, 8500. Cooking does take a bit longer but your temps should be on the money. Is there any calibration mode on that controller? Any possibility the wires from the thermocouple are reversed where connected to the controller? Maybe wrong from the factory and you duplicated the error when you installed the new one. Other than that or a bad controller I don't have any other thoughts.

[pondguy]

My Yoder holds a good constant temperature and it has been accurate when I have added probes to double check. I too am at altitude, 8500. Cooking does take a bit longer but your temps should be on the money. Is there any calibration mode on that controller? Any possibility the wires from the thermocouple are reversed where connected to the controller? Maybe wrong from the factory and you duplicated the error when you installed the new one. Other than that or a bad controller I don't have any other thoughts.

There isn't any calibration for the ambient air temp, only the meat probe. It's definitely been this way from Traeger. And I'm not alone with this problem. There is a VERY long thread on this on traegerforum.com. It seems a LOT of people have noticed this problem. Based on that, I would assume more people see the problem but have just not checked. As I commented on that thread, it's either a bug in their programming or intentional. Traeger is aware of the problem. When I called their support, they said that "using a 3rd party air probe to check things was not recommended". Their stance is that if the temp on the display matches the air temp BEFORE you start heating things up, the probe is accurate. I'll check out Yoder but will also be interested to see suggestions from others. I'm open to anything that works correctly. I definitely want to get to "set and forget".

[captainlee]

The bottom line is that you are not cooking at temperature set because you food doesn't cook. Yoder gives you instructions on how to place thermocouples within the cooking chamber so you should be able to do that too. 225 degrees should be 225 degrees whether on their controller or your temp probe. I don't understand their answer to you, sounds like brush off because they don't know the answer to their issues or just don't want to replace defective products. They are getting like the automobile industry.

[tstalafuse]

The basic answer I have been told by the manufactures is that the temp displayed is a calculated temp according to their algorithm for the grate level across the whole grill based on what the probe is reading. I would put your ambient probe at grate level and see what the temp is there, and then, since you can't calibrate their probe, mentally adjust the display to match what temp you actually want to be cooking. Do it at different temps to see what it is doing and with any luck it will be off by the same amount at the various set temps.

[captainlee]

That is why they tell you to set and forget. My Fireboard will display the average temp over the cook period. That is always about the set point no matter what the controller is displaying. They tell you don't get hung up on watching the controller display. Bottom line for you is that your food isn't even cooking.

[jtw]

My Grilla (an older OG, no "Alpha" or wifi) holds a pretty accurate temp. Temp swings are normal which I can tell from a grate-level Thermoworks probe, and sometimes I use a Meater+ during cooks. The temp/time graph from the Meater app shows a steady plus-minus of about 10 degrees around the set temp.

It sounds like a major defect with your Traeger. If it's consistently off by the same amount, you can simply set it to a known higher temp to account for a low reading.

[pondguy]

The bottom line is that you are not cooking at temperature set because you food doesn't cook. Yoder gives you instructions on how to place thermocouples within the cooking chamber so you should be able to do that too. 225 degrees should be 225 degrees whether on their controller or your temp probe. I don't understand their answer to you, sounds like brush off because they don't know the answer to their issues or just don't want to replace defective products. They are getting like the automobile industry.

Thanks for that! I had people in the other forum tell me not to trust anything. and that if i wanted temps that close, that i should stick with baking...

[captainlee]

Those controllers are very accurate. Obviously those people on that forum are clueless as to how these things actually work.

[bbqLuv]

And Traeger prices keep going up.
I truly like my Traeger, but . . .

[bbqLuv]

I have a Treger Timberline 850. The temp was really close, +/- a degree or 5.
Now I think I will test it again.
As far as "set it and forget it" this feature works for me on overnight cooks.

I wonder if the grill probe is located in a hot spot and not reflecting the temperature at the grates.

I also like to let my Traeger come up to temp and then allow a few minutes for the grill itself to come up to temp, if that makes sense.

[DogFaced PonySoldier]

Yeah, I wouldn't sweat it, really.

Measure your grate temp - do the mental calculation for how to set your controller for the Traeger. Meaning, if you need to set it at 325 to get 275, then do that. No big deal. I mean, yes, it's Traeger's fault, they've obviously got an issue they're not willing to deal with, yes, but you can take that into account.

I've found it's pretty typical for Traeger. I have one of the old old OLD original ones - it sits in my friend's shop for the last few years. My Yoder is very accurate temp-wise.

So no, the Traeger is not typical of the industry as a whole - but it sounds like it's pretty easy for you to overcome. Smoke on, don't get hung up, do what you need to do. It's obvious Traeger isn't going to help you, they have no interest in it.

[bep35]

I have a Grilla OG purchased in December of last year and the temp at the thermocouple is 20 to 30 degrees cooler than the temperature I measure with a probe on the grate. I adjust accordingly.

[MBMorgan]

Have you tried adjusting the temp. offset percentage on the controller? Grilla has easy how-to info on their site.

[jfmorris]

I can certainly understand your frustration that the setting on the grill is not what you actually have inside.... but I have found that none of my grill thermometers are as accurate as the Thermoworks probe I clip to the cooking grate.

But its not the end of the world - as others have said, check the grate temp, and since you can't calibrate, just learn that 265 = 225 on your particular cooker, and move on. Maybe every once in a while bug Traeger about it.

I am betting it will still be "set and forget" once you learn the offsets required. Just use the Thermoworks sensor for a few cooks until you see if you can trust it at those new settings. Personally I use my Thermoworks Smoke (or Dot) with an air probe even when I am using my temperature controller on my grills, as I trust Thermoworks more.

[Bad Hat BBQ]

Yep!! jfmorris & DogFaced PonySoldier

I count on my actual being 25 degrees less than the display
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