Insurance carriers are not going to renew HOA policies for Colorado HOA's. This is going to affect 10 of thousands. Guaranteed it' coming to a neighborhood near you. Luckily I have property and no HOA but that's not to say they won't go after individual homeowners.
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We are now living in the Utopia we've been promised. -
They didn't say it, but it looked to just be condos / apartments.Comment
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No surprise, gas grills are banned on most high rise apartment buildings in Florida even when not in a forest.Comment
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Yup, trouble coming every day!Comment
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The reporting seems to be inadequate, it prompts more questions. Why just in Colorado? How can an enclosed gas burner be as dangerous as a open, sparking, wood fired flame such as a fire pit? Has the Colorado insurance commission imposed some added legal burdens on the insurance providers that makes coverage untenable? And probably more that I'm not going to spend time imagining. There's more to this story than what was presented.Comment
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Insurance overreactions. Ban 'em all! It's not uncommon, painting with a broad brush. insurance looks for any way to decrease their liability. And they know they have control... they don't HAVE to provide you with insurance. If you don't like it, they'll drop you and you can look elsewhere. They couldn't care less. -
From the article I linked to below:
"Charcoal and wood grilling devices are already prohibited by all carriers, says Strong.
The National Fire Protection Association fire code has long recommended these restrictions, as do many municipal fire codes.
For the time being, many insurance carriers view electric grills as acceptable alternatives to gas grills and some associations are expected to establish central grilling and fire pit areas away from combustible structures."
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What about charcoal and wood burning grills/smokers? So then electric grills and smokers are ok?Comment
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I lived at 9000 feet in Colorado. Wild fires every summer surrounding us. We were part of a “POA” which is a joke just like HOA(yes they really are the worst) and they would have a fit when I used my Traeger on dry days. I understand the concern and I saw first hand how quickly those fires could be spread. It definitely did not settle well with my love for outdoor cooking but it is where I learned to cook in the snow! Fire insurance in the mountains of Colorado was insane and some people had housing purchases fall through because they could not get approved for insurance in some areas. I do miss CO a whole lot though!Comment
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I currently live in CO at 9000ft and it isn't our POA that complains. CO has a state wide automatic outdoor burn ban (doesn't include propane grills) when the NWS issues a Red Flag warning (warm day, humidity below 15%, and sustained winds of 25mph), which is pretty much everyday in southern CO. The county (Teller) issues extended burn bans during fire season all the time. POA.. nothing. God forbid you ignore those because you become responsible for all costs associated with the fire.
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NFPA specifically bans the use of grills and heating appliances from use on patios, balconies, or , within 10 feet of any multi-family dwelling bigger that a duplex. You cannot even store them there because if you store them there the likelihood is that you will use them there. Open flame is one reason but another is that gas grills have stored gas cylinders.
Can’t watch the video but it sounds like this is actually meant for condominiums and apartment buildings.Comment
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Enforcement with individual properties will be almost impossible to manage. They'll restrict new homes from putting in gas stoves and fireplaces, burn bans, but that is about it.Comment
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They still don't really have to 'enforce' anything. They just include a clause in your policy, have you initial it on signing up, and when/if you have a fire that started outdoors, it's going to be extra-specially scrutinized. If it looks like it came from a firepit, a BBQ or some kind of smoker, you're outta luck, you just lost your home and they're denying your claim. It sucks, but they can put whatever exclusions they want in their policies. Don't like it? Shop elsewhere. -
realdocBBQ - We went from "canceling or not renewing your insurance" to "a clause in your insurance". Two completely different things. I have a clause in my home insurance on what type of dog that will not be insured. If I got one of the "uninsured" dogs and it bit someone, I'd be out of luck on filing a claim. But with the same dog policy, if my tree fell on my house, I'd be insured. I'm not going to get an uninsured dog and I'm not going to burn down my house with a gas grill.
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Been awhile since I Iooked it up, but at that time almost 85% of all outdoor cooking fires were the result of a grease fire in a propane grill and only 15% for all other other cookers combined, so in a condo/highrise that would be a real problem. However, officials consistently ban "open" flame (stick burners, charcoal, and pellet grills) but not gas grills when there is a high fire danger.
Two interesting things from the news article was it focused on mountain/condo/highrise fires and the last straw was the Marshal fire in late 2021. The Marshall fire wasn't in the mountains (grass fire on the plains east of the mountains) and it wasn't started by propane grill (downed power lines and a slash pile that was smoldering for some time) that spread rapidly into residential areas from the tall dead grass and hurricane force winds.
Personally, we have done almost as much as we can to create a defensible space from a wildfire. The trees are limbed to 8ft off the ground, native grasses mowed down, metal roof/siding, a 15ft perimeter around the house covered with rock, and the final thing will be to cover the stucco on the lowest level with a rock facade. Unfortunately, even with these mitigation efforts the insurance carriers in Colorado are doing anything and everything they can to jack up rates, and/or find a reason to drop coverages. I wouldn't be the least surprised if insurance carriers go after homeowners in Colorado by banning all outdoor cooking regardless of the heat source or excluding fire coverage.
That counter top smoker by GE is looking better all the time.
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I was waiting for that GE comment. They may know something!!!! -
We too on fire prevention, stone perimeter, stucco building, metal roof, grasses kept down, trees trimmed up and a fire line cut on the perimeter of the property. With any winds, as always here,
that fire line is not wide enough to stop it. I've seen videos where the attic vents will actually suck the embers of the fire right in thus starting the house on fire. We are at 8500 ft and issues are starting here with the insurance companies.Last edited by captainlee; May 28, 2024, 03:20 PM.
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Copilot:
The number of open flame BBQ fires per year, according to the U.S. Fire Administration, is estimated to be around 16,500 fires. These incidents resulted in approximately 135 deaths, 975 injuries, and a dollar loss of about $701,800,0001. It’s crucial to follow safety guidelines to minimize the risk of such fires when enjoying open flame cooking.
Holy Moly, I had not a clue.
Last edited by bbqLuv; May 28, 2024, 09:35 AM.Comment
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I’m not surprised by this at all. The insurance industry has been hit hard in recent times. Are gas grills the cause? Not much really if at all. Like any business, the insurance industry is IN business to make a profit. And like any business they will look for any way to make that profit. Otherwise, why bother? No, I’m not defending them. Heck I need the various types of insurance just like everyone else. But I guess I understand it all. And I sure don’t like it.Comment
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Regarding insurance company profits: Most states, if not all, have an Insurance Commission that regulates profits and profit percentages. If a company makes too much, the insurance commission requires them to lower their rates; if they do not make enough, then they have to raise rates.
The problem they are facing in many parts of the country is losses so staggering that there is no acceptable rate increase that can cover them, and still be within commission guidelines. Because when the rates go up, the profit is still based on the standard deviation of 1.00. For example: in Pennsylvania, credit disability insurance has a profit margin (commission) of 21% of the standard deviation. So if all the policies cost $100, each one yields a profit of $21. But let’s say that losses in a business year exceed projections by 200%, and the cost of each policy goes up to $175; the commission is still based on the standard deviation of $100, and the company’s profit is $21. Higher rates DO NOT mean higher profits; higher rates just ensure solvency!
But what if there are no losses, and rates go down? Guess what: the profit margin is still 21%, but it goes down along with the rate! So if the policies now cost $50, then the profit on each is $10.50! So, lower rates do not increase profit margin! They can’t go nuts selling twice as many policies at the lower cost and make the higher commission on them!
Believe me, I got no love for insurance companies. But I do have an overwhelming love for capitalism, and I want insurance companies to be able to offer a fair product for a fair profit. But you can’t force them to do that. And you can invoke any dystopian interpretation you want, but this has nothing to do with government, or the HOAs for that matter. This is pure capitalism at work. If the companies could make a profit insuring those condos, they would. If they can’t, would you have the government take over? WHY?
If it isn’t profitable, it has to change. Either that, or insure yourself. But these are condos and high rises, which are by nature communal living, and if you accept the risk for yourself, then you also accept the risk for your neighbors. And who among us has the resources to insure the entire condo community? I don’t.Last edited by Mosca; May 28, 2024, 10:55 AM.Comment
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I think you will at some point see the govt take over at least the wildfire insurance aspect of home insurance just like you see it for flood insurance. Why, because the banks and mortgage companies aren't going to sit by while the insurance cos pull out of all the western states exposing 10s of millions of homes to not having insurance that they require to under right the mortgages. There simply wouldn't be anyway to prop up that many banks when they call the notes due to lack of insurance.
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Insurance (and risk-management in general) are part of the market system. The government isn't raising premium rates and telling insurance companies not to ensure policyholders -- it's the private market that's doing that.Comment
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