Welcome!


This is a membership forum. Guests can view 5 pages for free. To participate, please join.

[ Pitmaster Club Information | Join Now | Login | Contact Us ]

Only 4 free page views remaining.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

I Took a KCBS Certified BBQ Judge Class Yesterday...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    I Took a KCBS Certified BBQ Judge Class Yesterday...

    This weekend, I traveled to Laurens, South Carolina to attend the KCBS Certified BBQ Judging class, and the Table Captain's class.

    KCBS representatives taught the classes. They did a very good job. The BBQ was excellent, and I really enjoyed myself.

    Here are some things I learned in the class that seem counter to some of the discussion in other threads here.

    First, a judge cannot disqualify (DQ) an entry for any reason. Neither can a Table Captain. Only a KCBS representative (rep) can DQ an entry. And they usually prefer that 2 KCBS reps assess the situation and both agree that a violation occurred before they DQ an entry.

    The process goes something like this: each judging table must contain 6 judges. In addition, a Table Captain (TC) is assigned to each table. During the course of judging, the TC opens boxes and allows each judge at the table to view the contents. And each judge is supposed to view in silence, with an expressionless face, and score the entry for appearance as if the entry is valid. No one is allowed to say anything until all 6 judges have written their score for appearance. Then and only then are the judges and the TC allowed to speak up to question the validity of the entry. And even if they think the entry may be invalid, all they can do is summon a KCBS rep, who handles the issue from there and makes all decisions about DQ.

    Examples of invalid entries are any illegal objects in the box (foil, toothpick, pickle), illegal garnish, pooled sauce in the box, etc. Also, for turning in any rib meat that is not connected to bone. The instructor told us he recently had a friend turn in a beautiful rib box. All the ribs had bones attached, but the entry was DQ'ed because the cook also included some chopped rib meat to line the box. It was a pretty way to line the box, but it was illegal because some rib meat was turned in without the bone.

    As Meathead pointed out in another thread, KCBS worries too much about garnish types. The class instructor said several times "it's all about judging the meat", but then launched into a 30-minute discussion on legal and illegal types of garnish.
    Last edited by TBoneJack; February 26, 2017, 01:25 PM.

    #2
    Sounds like this competition has completely lost sight of what it should be doing. Not for me. Too much sauce???

    Comment


      #3
      Interesting

      Comment


        #4
        I think competition cooking is a great hobby for those that enjoy that type of thing.

        I like watching videos of competition cooks trimming meat to get new ideas.

        Comment


          #5
          My competition is "how does it taste compared to the other ones I've had"?

          Comment


          • SlushDeezey
            SlushDeezey commented
            Editing a comment
            Right on.

          #6
          TBoneJack You learned well, nice summary!

          Note that appearance score is weighted the lowest.
          Appearance is calculated by multiplying by: 0.5714;
          Taste score is converted to a weighted score by multiplying it by 2.2858;
          Tenderness score is converted to a weighted score by multiplying it by 1.1428

          I do wish garnish wasn't allowed at all, a LOT of time is spent trying to get the turn in boxes looking nice, and it's really too bad when an entry is disqualified (usually from a first time competitor) because they used the wrong garnish.

          We primarily compete to build publicity for a product we're working on, but I do have to say, it's a lot of fun, but it's an expensive hobby.

          My primary concern with the competition is there's a certain profile that does well - ribs with sweet/tangy sauce, pork is always pulled or sliced money muscle, brisket usually injected with no sauce, chicken thighs with sweet/tangy sauce. Creativity in the turn ins usually works against your scores unfortunately.

          Rich

          Comment


          • EdF
            EdF commented
            Editing a comment
            It's the same in any field. What gets measured is what gets done. But that's just the hazards of competition.

          #7
          Don't get me started on that....lol Congrats on the class, Mr CBJ!

          Comment


            #8
            I don't know if I would be able to sit through a class, voluntarily, if they were talking about garnish for 30 Mins. Garish shouldn't have anything to do with it. Meat should be served on a wood plank, provided by the contest Host, and covered with a foil or stainless lid. Then, its all about the meat. Nothing else.

            Comment


              #9
              Originally posted by BBQbot View Post
              TBoneJack You learned well, nice summary!

              Note that appearance score is weighted the lowest.
              Appearance is calculated by multiplying by: 0.5714;
              Taste score is converted to a weighted score by multiplying it by 2.2858;
              Tenderness score is converted to a weighted score by multiplying it by 1.1428

              I do wish garnish wasn't allowed at all, a LOT of time is spent trying to get the turn in boxes looking nice, and it's really too bad when an entry is disqualified (usually from a first time competitor) because they used the wrong garnish.

              We primarily compete to build publicity for a product we're working on, but I do have to say, it's a lot of fun, but it's an expensive hobby.

              My primary concern with the competition is there's a certain profile that does well - ribs with sweet/tangy sauce, pork is always pulled or sliced money muscle, brisket usually injected with no sauce, chicken thighs with sweet/tangy sauce. Creativity in the turn ins usually works against your scores unfortunately.

              Rich
              Competition BBQ sure looks and seems like it would be a lot of fun. I'd like to try it at the "back yard" level sometime, and see where it goes from there. But it does seem like it would be expensive, like you said.

              The cook team that prepared BBQ for our class yesterday said that in a recent competition, they cooked right beside a team that had ordered 3 briskets from Australia specifically for that competition. Yet the expensive briskets didn't win, or even place respectably considering their cost.

              The cook told us that anyone who really knows how to cook brisket can do about as well with a Wal Mart special as most backyard cooks could do with a Wagyu brisket.

              Comment


              • BBQbot
                BBQbot commented
                Editing a comment
                I haven't tried the Walmart briskets, but I do have to say we've done some really good Costco prime briskets for about $3 lb. Wagyu can make a difference (stronger beef flavor in Wagyu), but don't know if Wagyu from Australia versus Snake River Farms would make a difference.

              • BBQbot
                BBQbot commented
                Editing a comment
                Also, once you factor in luck (generous or stingy judging table),and most people (even certified judges) don't have a palette that can discern a good vs great brisket, if you cook a well marbled prime brisket well, you're probably not getting much advantage going to Wagyu.

              #10
              Hey my dogs love wal mart reduced for sale briskets. If they were judging it would be on how much you gave them lol

              Comment


                #11
                OK, here's another interesting detail from the CBJ class: KCBS judges are not allowed to use a fork or any other utensil while eating. Judges are required to eat with their fingers, even when eating saucy chopped pork. KCBS says BBQ is a finger food, and that it's best judged when eaten that way. The caveat is that judges are allowed to use a fork when serving themselves from the turn-in box. But once the meat reaches their plate, they can't use the fork to eat with.

                Not that I necessarily agree, I just thought it was interesting...
                Last edited by TBoneJack; February 26, 2017, 06:24 PM.

                Comment


                  #12
                  And as BBQbot alluded to above, the KCBS rep said most cooks believe in the "Angels Table" and the "Devils Table".

                  At the Angels Table are the new judges who are mainly there to enjoy the free food. They like almost everything and give mostly high scores.

                  At the Devils Table are the judges who are also competition cooks. They think only their BBQ tastes good, and they give mostly average-to-low scores.

                  The KCBS internal numbering system and table assignment is designed so that no specific cook team draws any specific judging table more than once per contest. In other words, if Team A draws Table X in chicken, then Team A is guaranteed it won't draw Table X in any other meat.
                  Last edited by TBoneJack; February 26, 2017, 06:30 PM.

                  Comment


                    #13
                    So congratulations on taking the class. I know nothing about competition cooking and have never seen a you tube video on one never been to a rib cook off never seen the show about doing it. Now from reading your post i now know that i never would want to. To me cooking is about having fun making something for people to enjoy presentation as well as taste. Only competition i want to do is make my next cook better than the last one and if i want to put a plate of pickles out i will. Thanks for the great post it really was interesting

                    Comment


                    • EdF
                      EdF commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Indeed, thanks for the interesting post!

                    #14
                    Well, I guess I got lucky. In the CBJ class on Saturday, we were told that newly-certified judges often find it difficult to get judging opportunities. But today, completely unsolicited, I received an email inviting me to judge a KCBS event in 3 weeks, within an hour of where I live.

                    A friend of mine knew I was taking the CBJ class, and just happened to mention it to another friend of his. And that friend is organizing a local KCBS event next month that needs judges.

                    I found that event last night on the KCBS web site, and was going to call this week to ask if they needed judges.

                    It sure is a small world.

                    Comment


                      #15
                      Congratulations hope you have fun and enjoy it

                      Comment

                      Announcement

                      Collapse
                      No announcement yet.
                      Working...
                      X
                      false
                      0
                      Guest
                      Guest
                      500
                      ["pitmaster-my-membership","login","join-pitmaster","lostpw","reset-password","special-offers","help","nojs","meat-ups","gifts","authaau-alpha","ebooklogin-start","alpha","start"]
                      false
                      false
                      {"count":0,"link":"/forum/announcements/","debug":""}
                      Yes
                      ["\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads","\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads\/1157845-paid-members-download-your-6-deep-dive-guide-ebooks-for-free-here","\/forum\/the-pitcast","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2019-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2020-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2021-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2022-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/current-2023-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/current-2024-issues","\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads\/1165909-trial-members-download-your-free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-here"]
                      /forum/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads/1165909-trial-members-download-your-free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-here