Brisket help.

[HandsomeDave]

Hey everybody. First time posting. I have been a Weber Smokey Mountain user for many years, and have had pretty good success with the exception of brisket. I gave up on brisket for many years, but after reading Meathead's article gave it another try. The results were mixed. It was nice and juicy, but basically tasted like pot roast. I became interested in the Pit Barrel Cooker after my last cook. I smoked two pork shoulders, and they came out fantastic. The downside was I was up every two hours all night so I could check and adjust the temp. I smoked them for a potluck at work, and they were a hit, but I was a walking zombie. After reading the reviews and watching all the videos on the Pit Barrel website, the idea of dropping the meat in and forgetting it was very appealing. So, a few days ago I happened upon a very lightly used Pit Barrel on Craigslist at a price that was too good to pass up. The guy was moving out of state and didn't want to take it with him. Yea for me! My collection is getting out of control ( now up to seven). So, I have another pot luck at work this Friday. I thought it would be nice to have some beef, so smoked a Brisket today to try the Pit Barrel out, and see if it was an option for the potluck. I was not happy with the results. I basically followed the video on the Pit Barrel website, Hung the meat, wrapped in foil at 160, put 1/2 cup of beef broth on the meat when I wrapped it and cooked to 200 on the rack. Let it rest in a cooler for 2 and half hours. When I unwrapped the brisket, I could not believe how much liquid was in there. I measured 2 and a half cups. The meat was falling apart and most of the rub was floating in the liquid. The first 2 inches of the flat was dry as a bone and had no flavor at all. The rest of the flat had good moisture but no flavor. The smoke ring was very small. The point was good for shredded meat sandwiches. It was falling apart. It isn't a total waste, but very disappointing. Not something I would be happy to serve to friends. So, I am hoping for some help from some of you folks with more experience. Is it possible that the end of the point was dry because of its proximity to the coals? Is it necessary, or a good idea to put liquid on the meat when you wrap it? I injected beef broth the last time (per Meatheads instructions) and thought maybe that was the source of the pot roast flavor, so I didn't do that this time. Is it necessary to wrap the meat at all? I know about the stall, but it seems like the meat cooks so fast on the Pit Barrel, I wonder if this step is necessary. I hit 200 degrees at 6 hours, verses 16 hours on the WSM (at 225). I followed the 40 briquette recommendation in my chimney. Put the hot coals on the unlit ones and waited about 15 minutes with the lid and the rebar out to give it a good start. Dropped the meat in, closed the lid and resisted the urge to check on it every 15 minutes. It hit 160 in about 2 and half hours, so it should have been nice and hot. I have smoked a ton of good ribs, pulled pork, chicken and turkey over the years, but I can't seem to produced a good brisket. Very discouraging. (Imagine my head hanging down). Any help would be appreciated. And oh yeah, I love this website and recommend it to people all the time.

Thanks,
Dave

[Mr. Bones]

Howdy from Kansas Territory, Welcome to Th' Pit!
I'm learnin' lots, from yer first post, so keep 'em comin'!
(I don't have a PBC)

[Jerod Broussard]

I hang my briskets for about 5.5 hours (I put a hook through the point and another hook connected to that one below), then I will take off the hooks and lay on the grate fat cap down first until it is barked up and dark, then flip to get the other side barked up........then wrap.

I might add a little water to keep the brisket from sticking to the foil when I wrap. Take to probe tenderness in the thickest part of the flat.

Most briskets won't get wrapped until about 185-188 internal. I don't take the temp until I wrap, and I take it just to see how far I am from 200. Ultimately the bark tells me when to wrap.

[HandsomeDave]

That sounds like a good technique to try. - thanks

[Huskee]

Welcome, glad to hear from you!

Personally I find it best to completely skip adding any liquid to the foil wrap, since as you know there's so much liquid that still comes out, so my reasoning is why add more? I've never had the foil stick. I too think it only helps to braise some of the seasoning off. Also, I'd like to encourage you to try wrapping much later, after the stall, when the meat hits anywhere around 180 or even 190. At this point you'll find the bark is much hardier, and a little smokier perhaps.

Since we eat brisket by typically slicing like thick bacon with a relatively thin layer of bark compared to the rest if the internal meat, and since we know the smoke flavor doesn't penetrate deep so most of it is on the surface in the bark, I say I want more bark and smokier bark. This way when you eat a slice of brisket there's more flavor in each bite helping it taste less pot-roasty overall.

So to sum up I'd encourage you to change 2 things:
1) Wrap later, after the stall, at 180 or thereabouts.
2) Wrap it dry. There'll still be plenty of liquid after the cook and cambro hold is complete. Promise.

Just know that the stall adds time to the cook, and not wrapping until after the stall will add a few hours to the cook compared to wrapping at the start of the stall. My typical brisket cook is about 7 or 8hrs until it's past the stall and I wrap, then anywhere from 1.5 - 3hrs wrapped until 200ish, then 2 hrs faux cambro. My total from start to slice is typically ~12hrs. This is cooking at 225-250. Cooking on the PBC will save a little time since they run hotter, but I'd say plan a good 8-10 anyway, maybe even 12 still.

[HandsomeDave]

What would happen if you didn't wrap it at all? I assume it would dry out? - I don't wrap pork shoulders at all and have had good luck with them. Of course that is on a WSM, so maybe it is different with the PBC.

[Huskee]

HandsomeDave Going nekkid the whole way is popular as well, you get a really hardy bark, just like you're familiar with on your pork butts. But your flat will be all the more dry of course, especially if it's hanging down toward the coals the whole cook. Do you plan to move to the rack at all?

[DWCowles]

Welcome HandsomeDave

[HandsomeDave]

Thanks!

[Steve R.]

I have never understood why people want to put a bunch of liquid in the foil with the meat when wrapping. To me, the goal of wrapping is to preserve moisture, not destroy the bark.

[Huskee]

I'm with you. It does help it to braise and tenderize, but yeah IMO it's at the expense of bark. And liquid will still naturally come out of the meat anyway so it will braise some even when dry wrapping.

[dshein01]

Just did my first brisket on the PBC tonight as well and took a similar approach except I didn't inject or put any liquid when I crutched it at ~150 (after it had stalled there for about an hour).

Took a similar 6.5 hours (for a 10.5 lb. prime packer from Costco) and then had in faux cambro for another 1 hr 45 mins.

The flat was definitely drier but I didn't find it too dry (some people at the table actually preferred it). I did notice that the smoke ring was a smaller than I've gotten on ribs / pulled pork as well (but I just assumed its because i took brisket out a bit too early and it came up in temp / surface dried a bit hurting the smoke ring).

I would try it again without putting any beef broth in the crutch, even without adding any liquid I ended up with ~1-2 cups of fat and juice in the foil when I unwrapped it to slice / crisp up the bark

[Huskee]

If a bigger smoke ring matters to you, you can beef (ha ha, pun intended) it up by starting at a lower cooking temp instead of a fully pre-heated smoker, and/or starting with a colder brisket (put it in freezer for an hour before putting in the smoker). The combustion gases and the heat are both racing inward on the brisket, and eventually the heats wins out and turns the meat grey, whereas the combustion gases cause the meat to hang on to the pink hue. To give the gases the edge over the heat (and therefore a slightly thicker smoke ring), try starting with a colder brisket and a cooler smoker. High humidity helps too in addition.

[HandsomeDave]

Honestly, I don't really care about the smoke ring. It is the flavor that counts. I was just wondering if the lack of smoke ring had anything to do with the lack of flavor. Based on everybody's comments it looks like I need to wait longer to wrap and leave out the added liquid.

[kmhfive]

Welcome to the Pit! I don’t have a PBC, but I agree with the above suggestions— get your bark before you wrap!!! May take longer, but the flavor is worth it.

You didnt mention how how long you dry-brined for; I try for 24-hours on a brisket. It seems to help retain moisture in the flat a little.

[HandsomeDave]

Yes, I did dry- brine, but only for about 9 hours. Thanks for the suggestion.

[RonB]

Welcome to The Pit Dave. I don't have a PB either, and the advice you have been given so far is very good, but I can add a morsel or two. For this potluck, I assume that all the food will be put out and people will help themselves to whatever they want. If that is the case, you will have to slice the brisket and let it sit on the table. Brisket dries out quickly once sliced. I suggest saving as much of the drippings as possible. Chill it while the brisket is holding in the cambro, and when the fat congeals, skim it off. If there is no way to heat it at the event, reheat it and put it in thermos so you can pour the hot drippings over the meat after slicing.

There is another option if you want to serve beef. Smoke some chuck roasts and pull them. You can supply buns or not. Keep the pulled beef in your cambro until time to serve. Don't forget to add the skimmed dripping to the shredded beef.

Chuckies cook just like butts, but you will probably have to take them to a higher temp to get to probe tender - maybe as high as 208*.

[HandsomeDave]

Good idea. I had already decided against serving brisket. Not going to chance it until I get my technique down.- Thanks

[JeffJ]

Great suggestions. I'll add one: If you aren't already doing so, dry-brine the meat. Also, Like Huskee said, make sure the meat is cold when it goes into the cooker. It will pick up more smoke if it's cold.

One question: What grade was the brisket? If it wasn't choice or prime that could have been a contributing factor to the lackluster results.

As RonB said, chuckies are an excellent substitute for brisket and I cook them WAY more often than I do brisket.

[HandsomeDave]

It was a prime cut from Costco. I have always had really good luck with their meat. The flat was pretty thin on the end though. Sometimes I wonder if it would be better to just cut an inch or so off before you smoke.

[PBCDad]

Only thing I can add, I haven't seen any mention of internal pit temperature. I know it is booked as a SIFI cooker, but the risk you run is that you may have a leak in the lid giving you much higher temperatures than you want to cook at. Make sure you can get constant temps first, then go blind if you wish. If temp is too high and you wrap it after the stall, you may end up with a tougher and drier brisket than you want.

[HandsomeDave]

I wondered about that too. My thermometer only has one probe and I had it stuck in the meat, so I don't know for sure. Based on a lot of the posts, and the outside temp, I let the fire get pretty hot before I hung the meat and covered it. I did check the lid, and it looked OK . I would never do that with the WSM, but it seemed like the conventional wisdom by people that use the PBC. - Thanks

[kamadoRob]

Welcome HandsomeDave, glad to have you with us! There's lots of experience in here and looks like lots of great advice already. I'm sure you'll get that brisket ironed out soon.

[HandsomeDave]

Thanks!

[GadjetGriller]

Couple things I put 2 hooks in the meat, if it hangs down to far I use the 2nd hook until the meat shrinks then move to the top hook (to see what I mean check out my video just jump to the 4 min 35 sec into the video https://youtu.be/YkBLuJ37MXc ) 2nd about the roast taste I understand I use to get that a lot from my masterbuilt electric smoker don't get me started lol) something to try is apparently our olfactory nerves (smell) has gotten use to the smoke and temporarily eliminated it from our taste palate. So while the meat is resting go take a shower and change cloths to give you noise time to re-acclimate the smoke flavor. have you ever noticed that the meat is better the 2nd day after a night in the fridge?? Supposedly same reason, I've done it a couple times and (maybe psychosomatic lol) but the meat did have a fuller smoke flavor?? ok good luck with you next cook!

[HandsomeDave]

Wow, I never would have thought about taking a shower to change the taste. That is funny, my wife always tells me the soup she makes tastes better the next day. I wonder if that is why.

[Duanessmokedmeats]

I have noticed that with my smokes.

[PappyBBQ]

Lotsa good advice here. I too use Costco Prime packers. I don't wrap until 180ish, but as Jerod Broussard pointed out, I don't wrap until I have a real nice bark. Then I wrap in butcher paper. I've never used foil. Haven't had a bad one yet (and I consider myself VERY lucky. Some briskets just can't be wrangled). Yes, the lower inch or two of the flat will get a bit dry - i turn that into cubes that I treat like "quick" burnt ends anyway. Just slice off the bottom 2 inches and put aside. I don't pay too much attention to Internal Temp except as a starting point to probe for tenderness. Don't get me wrong - i monitor both PBC temp and IT of meat. I've had primes ready as low as 195 IT. The probe knows!

[RobertC]

Tenderness occurs when connective tissue softens, and that occurs both with temperature and with time. Temperature speeds up the conversion but it still takes time. Internal temp is just half of the equation, so you can sometimes reach probe tender at 195, sometimes at 205, or elsewhere depending on how long it takes to get there.