The Quest for Consistency... (with Temps!)

[abandonedbrain]

I've been wondering if I have a lid problem, as almost every one of my cooking sessions with the PBC has shown my temps to be far outside the norm as I've read all of the threads on this sub-forum. However, mine tend to settle on the low side, usually 240F or so. On top of that, it only likes to stay around 240F for an hour or so, then slowly start dropping to 230, 220, 215 before I finally "chicken out" and crack the lid for 30 minutes to get those temps back up to 270F. Note that I run with both rebars spanning both sets of holes, as I've been trying to do enough meat in a session to make it worthwhile to light up 8# of briquettes (always Kingsford, usually Blue unless I'm doing chix, then Competition occasionally).

If I had a lid leaking problem, wouldn't my temps be ABOVE normal?

My main problems are two-fold:
1) Temps don't stay above 240F for any extended length of time, and tend to want to drop off because of that
2) I can't do ribs, as they get over-cooked at the start, with temps taking awhile to get under 300F

So my process lately has been:

1) Lay down a foil liner in the bottom of the PBC (because frickin' FedEx lost my ash pan order and I haven't re-ordered yet because it's a hassle!)
2) Fill the basket with KBB, to slightly mounded, as it's cold here in Michigan
3) Take out 40 briquettes, and light them with two pieces of newspaper under my new shorty chimney (because my Weber one was too tall for easy use in the PBC); this is done on the grate in the PBC
4) Wait 15-18 minutes for a good ash coating to build (depends on wind level, but I aim for about 50-60% white coating on the topmost briquettes)
5) Dump and evenly distribute the hot coals into the basket
6) Leave the lid off and rods out for 10 minutes
7) Put the lid on but leave rods out for 10 minutes

Temps get north of 400F by this time, then start falling slooooooowly. Last session, with a pork tenderloin and a split chicken hanging, temps spiked initially to 420F. I put the bars in right after step 7 above, then waited for the temps to come down below 330F before hanging the food. That took, I dunno, 20 additional minutes? Seems I'm burning up a lot of charcoal just getting to stable temps...

8) After hanging the food and arranging the probes (lid off for about two minutes), I put the lid back on and banged the top of it on the edges with a boot, just to try to make it seat fully. (This is before I learned fzxdoc 's little trick of using a piece of cardboard to block the smoke from the rebar holes. I'm definitely going to try that next session!)

After about 20 minutes with the food in (T +20), temps were down under 270F and still falling. At about T +30 minutes, temps were barely holding around 250F. These are all ambient cooker temps, BTW, not food temps yet. I do have an ET732, and hang the grill temp probe on one rebar off to one side, and had the food probe in the chicken because I felt that would be done sooner than the pork.

Temp continued to fall, dropping about 10F every 10-12 minutes. I finally had to crack the lid open just a small amount to get the temps back up over 260-270F, for about 20 minutes. The pork finished fairly quickly after that, and I pulled it out. I decided to leave the lid fully on for the chicken, mainly to see what the temps would do.

Over 20 minutes, temps dropped again, hovering around 245F. I then had to open the lid a bit more to get a nice hot finish temp for the chicken. Thus ends my experimentation.

Now that was a shorter session, lots of bobbing and weaving temps all over the place. Not a great example, but it does show that my temps are definitely not as high as others see. I have opened the vent hole at the bottom about 1/8" more (I'm at about 750' above sea level, and the vent was pre-set to 1/4 open), which didn't seem to help. My next session, I'm thinking of opening up that vent hole another 1/8", just to see if I can keep the stable temp above 250F.

With the settings as-is, though, I've been able to do two pork butts at the same time, but JUST, and only by adding more briquettes a handful at a time after about the 5-hour mark. I do mine without wrapping, and I add the briquettes cold on top of the hot ones. Last time, it took about 10.5 hours total for two 6.5lb butts to get over 200F. That's still not bad (my Weber kettle would take about 15 hours for that much meat, and I'd have to add more coals, using the C-snake method).

So with temps being LOW, am I right in thinking I may not have a lid issue? I was thinking of adding a gasket, but I'd rather figure out if I've got a process issue before I start throwing money at what everyone else reports is a super-stable and consistent cooker.

Thanks for reading my ramble!

EDIT: Just wanted to add that I've calibrated the ET732 in boiling water, against my Thermapen Mk3, and it was within 1-2F (on the low side). This is after using it for about 10 longer smoking sessions. I did just pick up a pair of new waterproof probes, so I'll have to calibrate it again soon.

[HawkerXP]

abandonedbrain Sounds to me like you need more air. I agree with you, open the inlet some more.

I follow Noah's lighting instructions. I found my barrel would go high and take way to long getting it down to 270 range using the fzxdoc method.

[lschweig]

Sounds like you have at least one of two problems causing the low temps.

First I would open the vent 1/16-1/8" more at the widest part and see what happens.

Second you may have humid charcoal, which causes low temps as well. I had this problem in the past and now store my open charcoal in a sealed container. Home Depot carries the Kingsford on specially designed for their product.

I leave the rebars in while the coal is coming up to temp and the lid is off. Here lately I have been loading the product in after around the 12-15 minute start up time Noah recommends (using a liberal amount of lighter fluid) and then put the lid on, but slightly cracked until the temp gets to around 270-280 and then close the lid.

After that I monitor it and really don't react until 15-30 minutes go by.

Oh yeah wind can really make it do squirrely things as well.

[abandonedbrain]

I see people flip-flopping on the wind issue. For me, I haven't noticed that wind makes much difference. For me, it's ambient humidity. And I do keep my KBB in my dry basement (with forced air furnace drying it out). Fresh, too; tossed any from summer.

[fzxdoc]

Well, abandonedbrain , since your temperatures seem to be low and don't seem to stabilize, I agree that a leaking lid is very likely not the problem. It could be the problem for the early high temperatures persisting, though. That's what used to happen with my PBC until I finally added the gasket.

During a cook, I don't recommend becoming temperature-obsessed with the PBC; I used to be that way, and then I started putting 2 temperature probes into the barrel, one on the vent side and one opposite. What I have found over dozens and dozens of cooks is that the temperature from one side of the barrel to the other can differ by as much as 40 degrees or even more. As the long cook goes on, though, the temperatures of the two probes seem to come more into agreement. So now I take the average of the two probes throughout the cook and seldom have to fiddle with the temperature in the barrel.

When I first got my PBC, my goal was consistency in cooks. For my PBC, that meant getting a good light on the coals, which for my chimney, charcoal and PBC was the 15-10-10 method. Some folks have better luck with a 30-5-5 method or anything in between. I experimented a few times, changing only one parameter at a time, until I had the perfect combination of vent opening (about 1/8 more than recommended for my altitude) and lighting procedure. Once I had mastered that, my cook temperatures were pretty consistent, settling in at about 275. It only took me 3-4 cooks to get things just the way I liked them.

I keep a record of every single cook I do, recording time, temperature, smoke quality, etc. That record keeping was a huge help in the beginning when I was just learning the PBC ropes. It's still valuable now.

When I do long cooks, my PBC will run stably at 275ish for 5-6 hours, when usually it's time for me to wrap/crutch. From then on, the temperatures start to gradually fall off to around 250 or so for the remainder of the cook. I can fiddle with the temp at that point, but I usually don't. One overfull basket of coals lasts between 8-10 hours. If the meat isn't done by then, it's usually wrapped and finished up in a 225 degree oven.

Oh, and I used the cardboard piece to redirect the smoke from the rebar holes away from the barrel only to check to see if smoke was coming out from the rim in that area above the rebars. That was before I installed the gasket. Now I never check for lid leaks.

And finally, I don't let the initial temperature get much below 260 for the first half hour or so. I crack the lid early on, to encourage the fire to stay lit at the level I know is best for my PBC. Once it settles in, it's almost always rock solid as I mentioned above.

I have faith that you will find just the right setup and techniques for your PBC. I can certainly understand your frustration when cooks are not consistent. You're doing the right thing by discussing it here. There are tons of folks who can help.

Best wishes,
Kathryn

[abandonedbrain]

I hadn't seen talk of 30-5-5, but honestly that may work for me. Seems to be 20 min before I get good "color" on my briqs. Cardboard: got that, sorry. Staying above 260F: that's what I've resorted to. 8-10 hours? I wish.

[PBCDad]

When I had the problem of charcoal dying out, I didn't yet have a leave-in thermometer, but your struggles sure sound familiar. What I've done to eliminate some of the problems is this:

• only let the charcoal light for as long as it takes for the smoke to disappear, usually only 10 to 12 minutes (I'm at sea level)
• Once I dump the coals, I put the lid on and bars in
• I wait for the white smoke to disappear, 20 to 30 minutes, then I hang the meat
• I put a couple cinder blocks on the lid to stop the leak, but I may end up getting the gasket

Now I do occasionally still have issues with coals not catching and the whole thing starting to die, but that is usually fixed with a single session of lid cracking. Not sure if any of this will help, but it at least gives you more to try

[abandonedbrain]

PBCDad Are you using wood, as well? When I used chunks (2-3) I found briqs under the wood wouldn't light normally. I stopped using wood to get my process right. I like the idea of the shorter to-lid-on time.

[PBCDad]

abandonedbrain, you know I never thought to track if the coals were dying when I used wood or not. I'll have to start paying attention. I think you may have just helped me more than I helped you

[Allison]

I don't know if there is anything to this, but it sometimes seems the problem of low temps and difficult chimney starts with the PBC occurs more often at lower elevations. I'm also at sea level here in New Jersey, elevation 0'. Hot, humid summers and sometimes a fair amount of wind blowing in off the water. I've never gotten my PBC dialed in, although my lid seats perfectly.

I've found Katherine's thread on starting enormously helpful (along with the many other tips and tricks others have posted). I love my PBC but would be happier with more consistency. I'm looking forward to a summer of making notes and changing one variable at a time until I've got it mastered. I'll be interested in seeing what finally works for you abandonedbrain.

[abandonedbrain]

Well, I'm a fan of coming back to threads with more info, so you'll see my attempts here for sure, Allison

[fuzzydaddy]

Welcome Allison! We'd love to get an intro from you over in the Introduce Yourself channel when you get a minute. https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...troductions-aa Thanks!

[lschweig]

A hearty welcome Allison from Illinois.

Huskee fuzzydaddy

[Allison]

Thank you gentlemen. Since joining last summer, wandering this site (which I still find somewhat overwhelming) has become one of my favorite pastimes.

[Planner47]

just joined because of this problem. I can not get passed 4.5 hours of burn time. first time I did chicken that was spited. took over 3 hours to get done. temp would not stay up. next time ribs same thing. open up vent a little. this is when I can't get pass 4.5 hours of burnt time. at 800 feet and 1/4 opening . did a whole turkey on grate 12lb got to 140 had to finish in oven. did a 8lb flat brisket and at 4.5 hours had to put in 20 lite bricks to finish. finished 2 hours later. no way near 6-8 hours of burn time. I lite 40 for 15 min. and dump them in the rest of the bricks, then put in meat and then the lid. I have a elect bradley that's 10 years old and is been great. hope I can get this thing to work for the wife loves the turkey and chicken that come's off the pbc. any help would be helpful.

[abandonedbrain]

I'm with you, dunno if I could even attempt a brisket with my shorter basket burn-out times. Hard enough doing pork butts! Plus, adding coals is fine, but the ash under them builds up, gotta be hurting "2nd round" longevity.

[fzxdoc]

Planner47 , at the end of those 4.5 hours of burn time, are all of the coals in the basket burned down?

Are you monitoring your PBC temperature with a remote thermometer?

Have you given the lighting procedure in this sticky topic a try yet?

https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/forum/grills-and-smokers/charcoal/pit-barrel-cooker/12614-light-my-pbc-fire-tips-on-lighting-and-maintaining-temperatures#post12614

It sounds to me that you don't really have a good enough fire going before you add the meat, or that your charcoal has not been stored in a dry environment, or that the fire is starved for oxygen. Or a combo of some or all of these things.

Your wife has really good taste, because poultry on the PBC is out of sight! With all the help available here in the Pit, you'll get to the bottom of the problem so she can keep on enjoying your cooks.

Kathryn

[Planner47]

Thanks Kathryn
yes the coals are burned down. I just joined yesterday and for the first time I saw your lighting inst. I will try that the next time I smoke. have to check my lid also. it just seems that if you do the 15-10-10 it would shorted the burn time. but I will take the advise from you guys and try it. the brisket I did got to 143 before I had to put more coals in to finish. and yes there was just ash in the basket. how do you keep a eye on the temp? do you have a external temp gauge mounted on the lid?

[HawkerXP]

Most of us run two temp probes thru the rebar holes, one for the pit and one for the meat.

[HawkerXP]

​@Planner47 ​​​​​​​Like this.

[lschweig]

A hearty welcome from Illinois Planner47



Huskee fuzzydaddy

[fuzzydaddy]

Thank you.

[Planner47]

thanks for the welcome. so how do you hang the probe for the pit? do any of you mount a external temp gauge on the lid?

[HawkerXP]

I just wrap it around the rebar making sure its at least 3 inches from the meat. I adjust the length depending on what I'm cooking.
A temp gauge on the lid wouldn't give an accurate reading of total pit temp. IMHO.

[lschweig]

Just drape the probe over one of the rebars. I generally aim for around 6-8" below the rebar. The most important thing is consistency.
No need to mount a external gauge as it is so easy to drape a probe over the rebar.

[Da' Moose]

As there are only three sides to the "fire triangle", Fuel (charcoal, wood, pellets, etc.), Ignition (match, torch, lighter, etc), and Oxygen (air,O2), there are only 2 variables to work with when dealing with temperature problems. Since you already have the ignition figured out (lighting the fuel!) your only two variables then are Fuel and Oxygen. I recommend dealing with one variable at a time. It seems to me that if your temps are dropping, the most likely culprit is the O2.

If your system is truly air tight, it could be starved for O2, Try opening your exhaust vents all the way and controlling the temp using the inlet(s) only. Depending on the design, regardless of how open the exhaust vent is, you will still get enough smoke to circulate around your meat to produce that beautiful smoke ring and flavor you desire regardless of the exhaust setting. BUT, if your fire is starved for air, it will die! Try this, on your next run, open the exhaust all the way and leave it alone. Start your fuel and prep your grill until it is up to temp, Then close the inlet vent in increments until you get the temp you desire. Monitor it in 5 degree increments. When it starts to cool, open the inlet a little until it either stabilizes or increases. As fzrdoc said, only play with one variable at a time and take great notes. experimenting with cheaper cuts of meats until you figure this out will make it easier on your wallet.

Let us know how the experiment goes and keep smokin'!