Overwhelming Charcoal Flavor

[Mickeylou5]

I had t h e same problem with my BGE so I sold it😢 So here I am several years later a member of AR and sorry I did. Call the owner for support, I hear he's a good guy. And there is a lot to learn here. I had wanted the PBC but settled on the cook vault.

[rrweather]

Thanks for the various tips and suggestions. I am definitely not the guy selling the PBC on CL

As for meat temp, I used to follow the "let it sit until room temperature" train of thought until I read the article here. The article made sense so I stopped doing it. I remember the statement in the article that "cold meat absorbs more smoke" and actually cringed slightly as I was already worried about too much.

My lava lock came today and I installed it. It will get to cure for a couple days as I am going camping over the weekend. I have decided, if I can not learn to use the PBC to my (and my wife's) liking, I will experiment with a turkey fryer burner and try making it a propane smoker. I really like the ability to hang meat and would love to cook turkey(s) that way. I've grilled turkey in the past and loved it. Messing around with a burner shouldn't require too much in way of mods so I can always try to give someone a great deal on a slightly used PBC if I decide it's just not for us.

As a side note, our small town has a popular steak house that does "Tri-Trip Tuesdays." We went a few months ago and my wife tried it. It was incredibly smokey. Arguably more than what we've experienced with the PBC. I wouldn't have been able to eat it as the smoke just hit you in the face with every bite. All around us people were happily chewing down on their meat with smiles. As others have mentioned, perhaps our pallets were tainted by the electric smoker and gas grills we've been using for the last 5 years.

I may reach out to Noah. I don't doubt there are thousands upon thousands of happy PBC owners. Obviously Noah and his wife are doing some things really well and I'm happy to support their business. In the end if the flavor is just not for us, that's no fault of Noah. Sometimes I open a bottle of wine and decide it's not for me...although I usually drink it anyway

I will probably give it another go next week when I get back from camping using charcoal, maybe try the lump method mentioned. If it's still too much, I will bust out the turkey fryer burner and make it a frankensmoker.

Thanks again for all the suggestions and tips.

Randy

[rrweather]

Do you then light lump and dump it on top or use the kingsford to light and dump that?

I have had this issue a few times with my PBC as well. I started to use MOSTLY all lump charcoal with my cooks for the past 10 months and have not had that problem again. I put a single layer of KBB on the bottom of the charcoal basket and then I fill the rest of the basket with lump, the single layer of briquettes helps to keep any small pieces of lump from falling through the basket, if there are small pieces of lump. I agree with Guest , you should try some good lump if you have not done so yet?

[rrweather]

I forgot to ask this last night...

Does his look normal? Last night when my temps were out of control hot (450), figuring I had nothing to lose, I closed the vent fully. That's when I noticed that fully closed was still quite open. I doubt this is contributing to my temperature issues but figured I'd ask.

Thanks again,

Randy

[freddh]

I really haven't had a problem as I am definitely a newbie with the PBC. However I have judiciously read this and other threads and have learned that I might have a problem. I called this afternoon and Beth returned my call in about 30 minutes (Noah's out on the road). She listened and had me go out and try to rock the lid, and I laid my phone on the lid so that she could hear. And guess what? It didn't seat quite properly as she heard the metal ever so slightly make its sound. She said that she would mail out the strip fix and that would solve my problem. I then turned the lid 90 degrees and it seated perfectly, which reminds me that no matter how true the instrumentation is, there's always the possibility that the machining could be off. Why else do car enthusiasts blueprint an engine? Two things stand out-one is their customer service! And the forum is definitely a learning platform as I didn't think that I had a problem until reading the aforementioned posts. So its money well spent in both cases.

[fzxdoc]

Wow, that was a well-timed phone call, freddh . Thank you for passing along the information. So it sounds like your lid has a sweet spot where it seals the best. Good to know.

Kathryn

[fzxdoc]

Randy, rrweather that does not look normal to me, but then I've only seen two PBCs IRL. Neither of mine looked/look like that with the vent closed. It shouldn't matter, since the opening recommendations are approximations anyway.

I've never found that fiddling with the vent opening has much of an effect on manipulating pit temperature. It's main job is to supply the appropriate amount of oxygen to the coals for a good burn. For me, the vent opening is set at an aperture that works well for my PBC and never changed. For my altitude, the recommendation is 1/2 open, but I find that an opening around 5/8 or so works better.

Most importantly, if you've been cooking with that vent closed like that, you're probably starving your fire, and a starved fire can kick out some really bad-tasting smoke when it gets riled. That could be the source of the yucky charcoal ash taste that you've been experiencing.

Kathryn

[JeffJ]

Randy,

Electric smokers deliver plenty of smoke flavor (I own a Bradley). Low/slow with properly heated coals should deliver very little charcoal smoke.

I am guessing you either don't like "grill smoke", which is the smoke that develops from meat dripping onto hot surfaces. Or, you are generating some gray/black smoke early in your cook for some reason. You may even be creating white smoke which isn't the same as thin blue smoke. Electrics deliver thin blue smoke. Every time. Charcoal also produces a whole bevy of other gases that impart subtleties that are impossible with an electric.

If you don't like "grill smoke" you're likely never going to be completely happy with what comes out of your PBC unless the taste of grill smoke grows on you.

[JeffJ]

Randy, rrweatherMost importantly, if you've been cooking with that vent closed like that, you're probably starving your fire, and a starved fire can kick out some really bad-tasting smoke when it gets riled. That could be the source of the yucky charcoal ash taste that you've been experiencing.

Kathryn

This can't be emphasized enough. Kathryn is absolutely spot-on. An oxygen-starved fire will result in gray/black smoke. I don't own a PBC but I've followed enough threads about it to have learned a few things. One thing I learned is NEVER mess with the bottom vent to control temps. Set the bottom vent to the level recommended based upon where you reside in relation to sea level. If you are running too hot jam a little tin foil into 1 or 2 of the rebar openings. And with the PBC, if you are at or below 280 just leave it be.

A Pit Member describes the PBC thusly: It's not a smoker, it's not a grill, it's a cooker. It wants to cook, so let it cook. It will settle in at whatever temp it feels like. Don't fight it. It's engineered to be a simple device that is set/forget. Use it that way.

[rrweather]

I wasn't cooking with the vent in that position. It was 1/4 open for all of my cooks. When the heat was out of control (450) for over an hour with little decrease in temp, I figured it was harmless to mess with the vent. I was only cooking a tri-tip and at 450 it was cooking quite fast! That's when I saw how far open the vent is even in the closed position. Not sure it's even relevant.

When I messed with the vent, I had already jammed foil in my 4 rebar holes. That didn't do much. At that point the leaky lid was verified (again) as the smoke was creeping out of the lip on all sides. I also rotated the lid into a couple different positions. I found the closest thing to a sweet spot and the temp dropped to 390. There was still smoke leaking out of the lid but at least the temperature went down somewhat. The only thing left to try would be the foil around the lip. At that point, my meat was almost done and it wasn't worth messing with.

I will fully admit that I probably let the coals go too long in the PBC with the lid off. I tried following Kathryn's lighting instructions. The lesson learned is I need to shorten the time from when the hot coals are dumped to when I put the rebar in and lid on. Part of my thought process was if the coals were a little better lit, there'd be less of a chance of that acrid charcoal smoke flavor. The problem was I let it go too long and could not get it to recover. Ironically, the smoke flavor I was trying to avoid was there anyway so that theory is shot!

One question I do have, is there harm in waiting until the temp stabilizes before I put the food in? Perhaps if everything stabilizes, there will be less bad smoke and more good smoke. I know this goes against the instructions included with the PBC.

[Huskee]

I forgot to ask this last night...

Does his look normal? Last night when my temps were out of control hot (450), figuring I had nothing to lose, I closed the vent fully. That's when I noticed that fully closed was still quite open. I doubt this is contributing to my temperature issues but figured I'd ask.

Thanks again,

Randy

Maybe Pit Barrel Cooker Co. can help answer this question for you.

[fzxdoc]

rrweather , Randy, I think you're overthinking this initial burn technique too much. Your problem is that your lid leaks. Even a small leak in a lid can drive the pit temperature upwards of 400 degrees and keep it there. Messing with the rebar holes when the lid is leaking is like using a bucket to save a sinking ship. The draw of air through the lid opening causes more havoc than anything coming out of the rebar holes. I have seen this time and again.

With your latest tri-tip cook, had you foiled the rim instead of fiddling with the vent or finding the sweet spot on the lid, the temps would have dropped immediately. Again, ask me how I know.

I've let the coals go in excess of 450 degrees with the lid off and still the temperature settles down pretty quickly after the meat is added and the lid is on with the rebars in place. For me, in the lighting ritual, 10 minutes lid off, 10 minutes lid on (rebars out for both) gets the temperature of the pit to about 360-400 at the level of the hanging meat. That's the perfect starting temp for my PBC because within 15-20 minutes after the meat is added, the temp starts settling in the 270-290 range.

I think you'll find a whole new ball game when you start PBCing with a lid that doesn't leak.

Best wishes,
Kathryn

[Voltron15]

rrweather , I use both it depends on how much stock I have of either at any given time. As far as the bottom vent, mine should only be about 1/4 open but I have found that about 1/2 open is perfect. As everyone has said, if you can get the temps under control and avoid having the meat in any heavy white smoke then you should be ok. If at that point you still dont like the taste then it may be time to move on.

[rrweather]

Thanks everyone. My lid feels secure with the lava lock. There is no movement when I try sliding it. I'm confident the leaky lid issue is resolved. I will give it another go next week and see what results we get. I can always try lump charcoal if the flavor is still too strong.

I appreciate all the help.

Randy

[fzxdoc]

Here's hoping that your PBC will be fine now, Randy. It's nice to know you have a Plan B (lump charcoal) and a Plan C (frankensmoker for turkey) should you still not enjoy the smokey flavor that the PBC provides.

Kathryn

[fzxdoc]

I wasn't cooking with the vent in that position. It was 1/4 open for all of my cooks. When the heat was out of control (450) for over an hour with little decrease in temp, I figured it was harmless to mess with the vent. I was only cooking a tri-tip and at 450 it was cooking quite fast!

Another thought: Dr. Blonder says in his Smoke webcast that it doesn't take long (as in minutes) for bad smoke to ruin a piece of meat.

He said that when this has happened to him, he has actually rinsed that terrible ash off the piece of meat and continued smoking. Just thought you'd like to know that tidbit, Randy rrweather .

This has happened to me, too. It was a long cook, and I added a chimney of hot coals to the (almost spent) coals in the basket. Ohmigoodness, ash-filled grey smoke billowed! I pulled the brisket, washed it off, added more rub, waited for the coals to settle in, and continued the cook. Mr. Brisket turned out OK, thank goodness. I've never added coals to a PBC since, though. If I ever did that again, I'd remove the meat, add the coals, let things settle out, then add the meat back.

But honestly, when my coals die, I wrap in double foil and finish in the oven.

Kathryn

[Pit Barrel Cooker Co.]

I forgot to ask this last night...

Does his look normal? Last night when my temps were out of control hot (450), figuring I had nothing to lose, I closed the vent fully. That's when I noticed that fully closed was still quite open. I doubt this is contributing to my temperature issues but figured I'd ask.

Thanks again,

Randy

You need to set your damper according to your elevation. It doesn't have to be perfect, just eyeball the setting.