I have the same problem with my grates . i was told it is white rust and it is common with anodized aluminum . I was told to use vinegar which is acidic cleaner . The vinegar will not harm grates . Aluminum car parts will do the samething .
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Did you get that recommendation from the Grillgrates folks? -
jfmorris@ I was talking to my brother and I mentioned the problem to him and he told me to give
the vinegar a try . He told me anodized aluminum will do that after awhile . I cleaned the grates today and soaked them in vinegar for awhile , See what happens , vinegar is cheap ..Last edited by BRic; June 26, 2019, 08:37 PM.
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When steel oxidizes it is called rust when aluminum oxidizes it is called aluminum oxide. The white powder is aluminum oxide and is what is left when the aluminum breaks down.Comment
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Maybe GrillGrates aren't worthy of the platinum award after all? I am familiar with anodize in the aerospace industry as it's purpose is to prevent oxidation. I was always suspect of these grates if one were to use metal scrapers if it would remove the anodize. Anodize partially (50% I believe) etches into the parent material. However, when heated and repeatedly scraped with a metal tool (which GrillGrates sells), I can't imagine the anodize could survive for very long. After all, per specifications I am familiar with, the total thickness maxes out at .0045" thick. I also know it is very difficult to control the thickness. I doubt GG did any kind of metallurgical process controls to validate actual thicknesses.
Any who, maybe Meathead may want to re-review them factoring in longevity? I know like many of us here, I bought them based off his review. Certainly it's difficult to predict the life of something based off an initial review. However, like I said above, I thought anodized aluminum, heat and scraping were a suspicious combo.Comment
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Good to hear your viewpoint, Rod . The recommendations for use were much more loosey-goosey back when I bought my first set of GrillGrates nearly 5 years ago. The blurb back then said something like "since aluminum melts at 1125°F and most grills do not get hotter than 700-800°F, you will get years of use out of your Grill Grates."
Now the booklet that came with my new GrillGrates says not to do any high heat burnoffs after a cook; doing so will damage the grates and the grill.
KathrynComment
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I don't recall what my booklet said other than the grates will run about 200 degrees higher than normal grates. So don't blast your burners. I always kept that in mind. Especially after I went higher than normal once. That resulted in one panel with a curled corner. I guess GG learned something about their product from the time you bought yours to time I bought mine.
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If Kathryn is seeing this white stuff on her grill parts as well as on the Grill Grates and the white stuff is indeed aluminum oxide, then I'd say the problem is not an issue specific to the Grill Grates. It's the aluminum itself. Aluminum oxide is not going to spread to unaffected areas like mold any more than ferric oxide (rust) spreads like mold. It is going to occur when and where conditions are favorable for oxidation -- clean bare metal, high temps, oxygen, and moisture.Last edited by IowaGirl; June 27, 2019, 11:46 AM.Comment
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Rod I have been using a set of GGs on my various grills since they were first introduced. The only probn;lems were some warped under extreme heat. I placed them upside down on my wooden deck and stood on them and they straightened right out. I can't tell if the anodizxed coat has worn off, but I don't care. They do so many things right: Prevent flareups, even out hotspots, I throw pellets on them for a quick burst of smoke, the fingers on the spatula make lifting fish off a breeze, they prevent asparagus from committing suicide, and so much more. The coating is the least of my concerns.Comment
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High temps not really necessary for ALoxide to form- I'll check on whether heat aids the process.Originally posted by IowaGirl View PostAttached FilesComment
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I agree aluminum oxidizes easily at ambient temperature, but higher temperatures can increase the rate of oxidation and corrosion in the presence of water. Presence of halides (chloride from table salt for example) and abrasion can also raise the rate of corrosion. Just a guess- I am wondering if thorough, frequent cleaning might be why some are seeing this problem and others are not. My reference: Corrosion of Aluminum and Aluminum Alloys, J.R. Davis, ed. ASM International. 1999. See esp Ch 2
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Just to clarify- we run GG to a MIL spec Hard Coat Type III anodize. (not type II decorative which can be prone to oxide in right conditions- humidity is the big one) Our spec is 1.2-1.6 MIL and is regularly checked during each run. We also have a meter to spot-check at GG warehouse. Hard anodizing is a very functional "coating" it loves friction (its very lubriciious) and is very durable, and quite hard. Harder than steel, only titanium is harder. In a past life I was involved with hard anodizing machine gun barrels for Barrett Machine Guns (no relation but they are cool people). Mazda pistons as well. We run our parts in two plants in Midwest that are big auto and motorcycle suppliers as well. ISO the whole nine yards.Originally posted by Rod View Post
Regarding longevity- we have many customers at 10+ year mark. One restaurant in Greenville is at 5 years. Caterers too run GG hard- including a buddy who caterers for Chicago White Sox games. GrillGrates can take a licking and keep on ticking!Comment
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I too appreciate your input GrillGrate Brad. I've been over heating my Grill Grates for a few years with no problems. I KNEW there was a reason I never clean them.
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Anything different I should do to keep gunk down without washing them in water every so often?
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GrillGrate Brad , thank you so much for responding. It will be good to hear your thoughts about possible formation of aluminum oxide on the Grill Grates after high heat use when you have finished your investigations.
It's wonderful that you have joined this discussion to help us figure out this puzzle, and I for one am grateful.
As I mentioned previously, I worked with Michael Dellaporta during my 2 year battle with the powder deposits, and he was extremely helpful and supportive, demonstrating great customer service.
KathrynLast edited by fzxdoc; June 28, 2019, 08:54 AM.Comment
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Both of our anodizers confirmed that high temps do not aid in formation of aluminum oxide (on a hard anodized part). Both felt cleaning methods most likely have compromised the hard anodize exterior to allow oxide to form in compromised areas. I also learned that 409 and Fantastic are both high PH and can pit just like dish detergent or oven cleaner. Food, heat, and scraping they both stated would be highly unlikely causes of oxidation of a hard anodized GrillGrate. So no fantastic, no 409 either!Originally posted by GrillGrate Brad View Post
To answer the valleys gunk question- I only attack it when smoke tells me we've got build up that is not carbonized 100% yet. Then I brush the valleys with the valley brush and give warm up a few more minutes until the smoke is gone. I need to take a picture of my Genesis tonight and post it here- IMHO they are in perfect condition- and I don't baby them!Comment
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I always use duck fat spray on them. I spray the grate every time I flip my food as well and when I am done I flip the grates upside down to burn off. I can literally clean it with a paper towel after that. Duck fat is the key for me.Comment
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I never used the underside of the GGs to sear meats until I got my new set in January of this year. This set fits my Summit S650 exactly--they don't sit on top of the Weber SS grates like my old (problematic) ones did. I quickly learned how good this is for burning off residue on either side.
Before, I used my Grill Grate Griddles on top of the GGs. I still prefer them for searing because they're easy to remove, clean, and store in the kitchen where they're always pristine and ready for the next searing session.
But I wanted to see how good flipping the GGs worked for gunk removal. Pretty doggone good, I found out.
KathrynComment
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I use GGs in my WSJ. When I first started out, after a while, I was getting carbon deposits on the bottom of the ribs and clogging up the holes. The supplied tool is perfect for flipping fragile food, cleaning not so much, IME.
So I decided to do a thorough "spring cleaning". I soaked them overnight in an undiluted tub of Extreme Simple Green Aircraft and Precision Cleaner. It meets a Boeing spec for various aircraft surfaces, so I figured it ought to be OK here. I use it to detail under the hood of one of my older sports cars. After soaking they got a good scrubbing with a brand new small brass toothbrush and a narrow stainless paint scraper. I don't use wire brushes on any grill or cooker part unless they get a good rinse of water afterward.
From then on I've always used the stainless scraper to clean them after dinner while they were still warm. A pair of pliers makes it easy to flip them and tap them while vertical to dump out the scrapings. The other day I was looking at my chainmail scrubber and it dawned on me it would work quicker at cleaning the valleys. What I don't know is how good a job a cycle in the dishwasher would clean the scrubber.
But not long after, one time, I did notice gray "stuff" I thought was mold. I brushed it all off with crumpled aluminum foil, then let them sit at temp longer than normal to "kill" the remaining.
But, I've never had mold before. 30+ years of various Weber gassers, 3 WSJs, an old school offset and my current PBCjr, no mold ever. The "stuff" has never reappeared, either.
So here's my take. I cleaned them so well, I removed the seasoning. After regular use, it's come back. Here are a few data points:- I use Kingsford "Pro" exclusively in the WSJ.
- The GGs see a lot of dry brined (salt on the surface) meats. Chicken on the top, and seared steaks on the bottom.
- I'm in a high humidity environment within walking distance of saltwater.
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I am starting to think that at least in my case, you may have hit the nail on the head. I.e. getting the Grillgrates too clean. I have only seen the white deposits, and it has happened more than once, after I had deep cleaned the Genesis, including scrubbing the grates down, followed by high heat for 15 to 30 minutes to dry out the grill (after hosing it out the heat is needed before the ignitors and stuff work right again).
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Tell us about your sports cars??Originally posted by N227GB View Post
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