Cattle suggestions for a small family farm

[Hi, my name is Joe]

My wife's family owns a small farm (14ish acres total, about 3 acres currently is a pasture). They bought some dairy bulls cheap to try raising some edible cattle.

By the end of the year the remaining cattle are scheduled to occupy our freezers. Moving forward, I'm interested in selling the idea of getting some purpose built cattle. I have no idea where to buy a cow or what breed to purchase. The word Angus has been thrown around the porch a few times but from reading this website, the lack of regulation on beef seems like Angus just means a black coat.

Granted we as a family have no real experience in farming, but I like the idea of knowing the treatment and the environment in which these animals are raised.

So, fellow pit masters, I need your help spending our money.

[tbob4]

I don't know if you are near a HS with a 4H program. If you are, I would consult with them. You are likely to get not only good advice and tips on good prices, but you can help a kid or two out who need a project but don't have the land or resources to do it on their own.

[hoovarmin]

I second that. Great suggestion

[customtrim]

Any whiteface willl make very good beef (hereford)

[ComfortablyNumb]

I own a small farm, therefore I read/subscribe to publications/sites/list serves of interest. The most touted for breed for small farming is the Dexter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexter_cattle

http://www.motherearthnews.com/homes...e-zmaz01djzgoe

http://www.dextercattle.org/

I have no experience raising cattle, Mrs CN has allowed hogs and chickens, but so far it's a no go on cattle.

Came across this as well to help in your search: http://www.motherearthnews.com/homes...w-zmaz74mjzhol

[6th Borough BBQ]

wow those look yummy. I mean cute!

[ComfortablyNumb]

When people 'ooh' and 'ahh' over how cute my baby pigs I tell them, "They start out cute and end up tasty!"

[Hi, my name is Joe]

tbob4 Thanks for the advice. We do have a 4H program in our area, we'll inquire.
ComfortablyNumb I read a few of the articles and it reminded me that I FORGOT ABOUT THE TRI-TIP Beside I'll be reading up and also looking into customtrim suggested as well. Mrs. CN should reconsider the cows

How are the pigs BTW. Are the lower maintenance than cows?

[Sephon]

We did Lowline Angus a couple of years ago, they were pretty easy going, never tried to break free. And they were DELICIOUS!

They, of course, made for smaller steaks and cuts of meat. We haven't done it since. It was a fair amount of work and money, and a lot of hassle to get them sold.

And keeping one whole cow for a small family is A LOT of beef.

[CaptainMike]

Having been around cows for most of my life I'll tell you they are not set and forget. Food, water, shelter, and healthcare is pretty much a full time job. I like tbob4 's suggestion with the addition of contacting your local county ag commission or extension or whatever they might call themselves. Part of their job, which you pay for, is to help folks with advice on how to start a farm. It sounds like you live in a rural area so seek out local farmers and ranchers if they are near by. Look into visiting a local stockyard or auction yard to get a feel for cost. A good place to network as well. Good luck! I did a quick google and found this, make a point to go check it out on sale day: http://www.fourstateslivestocksales.com/index.html. On a side note, my first paying job was at a livestock auction yard. I was 14 years old and the starting pay was $1.65/hr!

[EdF]

Got ya both. Understood. On the other hand, I keep having to have the sun-side part of my arms checked for cancer every couple of years.

[tbob4]

EdF - 10 is really early. My dad made me get the job at 14 because I made the mistake of saying that my two pairs of jeans (which I outgrew in 1 month) was insufficient. I could have had done your job (maybe) except I made the mistake of driving the golf cart onto the green at 10-12. I was never asked to help again. In fact, I think I was banished.

[EdF]

Well, we all have different backgrounds. I had to start saving for college, they said. And I did.

[ComfortablyNumb]

Mrs. CN should reconsider the cows

I couldn't agree more!!

How are the pigs BTW. Are the lower maintenance than cows?

Having no experience raising beef, I can't say. Observing neighbours they provide water and keep them on pasture. However in the winter they have to stock up on hay and run it out to them and keep the water from freezing. Sometimes they lose one, and with the amount of time and money invested, it hurts. Slaughter is a lot of work, and meat needs to age a week before butchering.

Hogs are a low investment, weaners can be had for as low as $70 in the late summer to $100 or so in the spring. Depending on how many you keep and how much space you want them to work, fencing can be as little as 7 hog panels and t-posts for a small pen up to acres of three high tensile hot wires. Housing can be a simple lean to with an H brace of wood posts and a couple of sheets of plywood. Heating is not necessary. For water I recommend a Rubbermaid 50 gallon stock tank, heavy enough they can't knock it over, tough enough they can't tear it apart. I don't use feeders, just dump it on the ground, one less thing for them to destroy. Feed is the expense, bagged, commercial feed is very expensive, although convenient. I was spending $640 a tonne and using two tonnes a month when I finally got smart and invested $1800 in a grist mill. Purchasing local wheat/barley, peas from Spokane, and a mineral supplement in Othello I have reduced my feed bill to $140 a tonne. At any rate, a hog needs five pounds of feed per day minimum. A boar and a couple of sows can provide you with all the pork you can eat and enough extra piglets to sell to cover feed expenses. Or you can get a couple of weaners and raise them up for about six months. Daily chores are feeding and checking water. Slaughter takes a couple of hours and meat only needs to chill overnight before butchering, so you can get it done in a weekend. A side benefit is to triple your garden space and divide into three paddocks. In one you raise hogs, the other you raise a cover crop, and the third you grow your vegetables. At the end of the season you move the hogs to the vegetable paddock, seed the hog pen with cover crop, and the following spring till in the cover and plant your vegetables. This way the pigs clean up the garden, the soil gets two years rest between crops, and you are continually building up the organic content of the soil.

That is a brief overview. Feel free to ask specific questions, and if you decide to go forward I'll help you avoid some mistakes.

[CaptainMike]

Those sound like some pretty "comfortable" hogs!

[Hi, my name is Joe]

Thanks CN. I'm going to cut and paste this in an email to my inlaws.

[Nate]

Get some Mini MOOs .... seriously research them...

cant go wrong with some chickens. In laws have them for eggs and butchering... always delicious.... also good for getting rid of scraps and composting....

[Hi, my name is Joe]

They have about a dozen chickens, they're not laying egg just yet. The first round of chickens ended with a coyote or fox or some other nocturnal predator massacring the flock. We did find a trampled raccoon the next day, either from the cows or the donkeys.

Mini-Moos, interesting indeed.

[Hi, my name is Joe]

Having been around cows for most of my life I'll tell you they are not set and forget. Food, water, shelter, and healthcare is pretty much a full time job. I like tbob4 's suggestion with the addition of contacting your local county ag commission or extension or whatever they might call themselves. Part of their job, which you pay for, is to help folks with advice on how to start a farm. It sounds like you live in a rural area so seek out local farmers and ranchers if they are near by. Look into visiting a local stockyard or auction yard to get a feel for cost. A good place to network as well. Good luck! I did a quick google and found this, make a point to go check it out on sale day: http://www.fourstateslivestocksales.com/index.html. On a side note, my first paying job was at a livestock auction yard. I was 14 years old and the starting pay was $1.65/hr!

Thanks CaptainMike I'm did a mini pitch about contacting the 4H folks with my inlaws today. We'll see what happens. We live in an area that's a bedroom community. We live in a new neighborhood (used to be a Christmas tree farm) and my inlaws live on what used to be a large farm (east coast large) but over the decades it's been subdivided and sold off. There's a bit of a cultural divide in the area, there's the white color folks who have moved in and the old school blue color folks, the two don't seem to get along all that well. Personally I don't care how you make a living, i've been on both sides and I found what works for me. I hope to be a professional dog walker one day

Our extended family all work full time, my inlaws have some flexibility in their schedules. Along with My wife and her sister. (Wait, my brother inlaw and I don't have much flexibility, I smell a conspiracy...) So they have the time and desire to tend to the critters.

ComfortablyNumb Pigs will probably be a no go if they require an electric fence. My wife and I have a 13yr old and a 3yr old along with our nephews who are 8 and 4. However the rotation of the fields and the gristmill, i'm going to share that info right quick.

[EdF]

Sheep are pretty easy too. As reported by my former meat grower. She had cows, pigs, sheep and chickens. When I was younger and worked in a greenhouse, the owner borrowed some sheep for the summer to trim down the growth around the greenhouses. Just make sure they're well-enclosed. We were sited in a suburban neighborhood and they got out. It was like a football game chasing them down!

[Hi, my name is Joe]

That's pretty funny EdF. Once both Donkeys got out and we discovered how stubborn and Ass can be. They did not want to cross a road, we had to use a breadcrumb trail to lure one back across the road. Once one was across there was no slowing the second one down from crossing.

[Cruiser71]

I farm and raised cattle growing up. They are a lot of work, but I think worth it. One thing to consider is where you have your meat processed. Find someone really good and careful, don't go for the cheapest. Beef needs to hang a while, and they should separate the organ fat and not let it get in your burger meat. If you have a good butcher you shouldn't have any trouble selling your extra as halves and quarters. Also, make sure you finish them well, don't try to push a young skinny steer through just because you have a slaughter date. Leave the grass fed thing to the pros. Finish them with grain, but keep plenty of good hay in the ration too, it adds flavor, straight grain fed is bland IMO. I like black baldies myself. (cross between angus and hereford) they are easy keepers, grow and finish well, not as ornery as some black cattle can be, calves are a little tougher and more lively than straight herefords. I wouldn't bother with the little breeds, they are just for those scared of big cattle. If you spend a little time every day working them, they will learn to like you and handle easy, no matter the size.

[CaptainMike]

Great comments!

[ComfortablyNumb]

Electric fences aren't required for hogs, however they are the lowest cost for large areas. Hog panels are, at least in my area, about $25 a piece and are 16 feet long. T-posts are around $5 each and you'll need at least four to hold the panel in place. So you are looking at about $50 to put up 16 feet of fence. High tensile hot wire is about $100 for 4000 feet. A wood post on each end and T-posts about every 20 feet. Minimum is three strands. Also needed is an energiser and insulators. You can string up a lot of fence for a fraction of the cost of panels. Just in case you are tempted, never use welded wire, they will push right through it. Field fence will hold them, but don't expect it to look pretty for long.

Kids and livestock, another subject. Farm stock are not pets. They aren't for cuddling, petting, or playing with. They are large/strong creatures that can cause injury or death. Treat them like you would a busy highway, loaded firearms, or a swimming pool, teach your kids limitations and supervise. Kids learn hot wire just as quick as farm animals. The fence does not contain them, they can walk right through. However, the shock hurts, and they learn not to touch it. The pain is so psychological that I can remove the wire and they won't cross into the new area. Touching a hot wire is not fatal, were it I would have died a hundred deaths. Older kids can be told, young ones need to be watched. If they touch the wire, it is usually only once.

Since you are new my suggestion is to start small, say two or three weaners next spring. Use seven hog panels, make a square with four of them. When they have exhausted the soil, set up the next three alongside, so you have two squares. Remove the middle panel and let the pigs work the fresh side. Later replace the centre panel and remove the three surrounding the old section, building a new square on the other side and removing the old end/ new centre pane . Don't invest in a mill yet, either use commercial feed or find a local source that grinds grains. You'll harvest in the fall and be done with them. At that point you'll know if hogs are right for you or not. You may give them up, you may just raise homegrown pork for you and your family, or you may decide to raise stock and recoup expenses.

[CaptainMike]

Dang it, you're talking me into some hogs!!

[Hi, my name is Joe]

Sorry CU I ran over this post and missed it some how. More to follow.

[Hi, my name is Joe]

The first cow came in today.

[Hi, my name is Joe]

Cruiser71 we have a local butcher "Galvinell's", our local USDA butcher, who we delivered a live cow to and came back in boxes. I probably need to take Meatheads advice and get down there more often. I grew up hunting and butchering Deer, but we're a extremely busy family and don't quite have the time and equipment to do the job right. So for the time being we're leaving the dirty part of the job for the Pros.

[Danjohnston949]

Hi, my name is Joe, Joe I'm late for the Fiesta for Now❗️ Earlier This Summer I attended a BBQ BootCamp held by the Meat Lab, Nutrition and Beef Cattle Research Dept! It was literally held in a Feed Lot with Live Stock‼️ I think You can Get Information on the NDSU Web Site! One of the things I Found of Particular Interest is they Were Cross Breeding Herefords with Black Angus for the improved Rations to Weight Gain, this resulting in Higher Quantities of Utilizable Meat Per "Baldy" than either of It's Parents! It Totally Blew Me Away they Were Doing Exactly What My Dad Did 50 Yrs Ago On the Farm for Slaughter Cattle for The Meat Market Mom and Dad Owned! Dad didn't have but an 8th Grade Education and No Computer or Game Boy❓❓ OBTW, The Baldy if its lineage can be documented they can be Slaugtered as Certified Black Angus‼️
Eat Well and Prosper! From a Backyard Cremator in Fargo ND, Dan