If you use an ice bath and then sear, if they're thick steaks at all, I just wonder how warm they're getting by the time the sear is done. It is possible to go 'over' on doneness (without a cooling period of some kind) if you aren't careful, as they're already AT the doneness you WANT, then you sear them and add heat to the mix.
I'm not convinced on the ice bath, but I can see letting them sit a while to cool gently, but ice bath seems a bit much to me. I haven't tried this, so... maybe this could be a good experiment this weekend.
OK guys, thanks for the feedback and ideas!
As I understand it, the steak I SVāed from thaw could cook in the bath for 1-3 hours. So if I have it in the SV bath for say 1.5 hours, take it out, dry it, and season it, then sear it (no ice bath), how is it it can keep on cooking at room temp if it was ok to be in the SV for another 1.5 hrs at 130Ā°? Since I tried the ice bath on this one, next one I will try with no ice bath and compare. I think I will thaw the steak also and properly brine it before SV. Having fun now!
"...how is it it can keep on cooking at room temp if it was ok to be in the SV for another 1.5 hrs at 130Ā°?..."
It won't. But if it's at 130F and you add heat searing, it will be pushed above 130F. BUT... the push will be very minor if you sear very hot for ~60 seconds per side. It will push much more if you sear on medium high head for 3 minutes per side.
rickgregory Exactly what my issue has been - I need to get a hotter sear so I don't need 3 min/side to make it look right, and cool it more before I start. Nailed it.
Another option: remove from SV bag, pat dry with paper towels, put on a rack in the fridge for 30 minutes. This will cool mostly the outside, and dry it some more. The surface cooling will help avoid over-cooking during the sear. The inside won't over-cool.
Also, I overcook mostly when the searing technique isn't hot enough, and the meat spends too much time being heated while waiting for the desirable surface crust to form. (See rickgregory comment above!) So, except for the situations where you will be finishing the meat much later, I prefer to cool/dry modestly, and sear immodestly.
BTW, when I use the oven at 220 F to dry heat the meat to an IT of 120, it is far shy of the 132 SV target. Then I have more leeway in searing. I have never found that the center is undercooked when I do that. When I have pre-heated to a internal target of 130, then searing always takes me too far.
I think I am saying that you need to cool if you are SV at 132, but not if you are dry heating to 120?
smokenoob I understand the confusion/dilemma. No one ever warned me not to heat meat to IT of 120 in the oven for fear of botulism. It is exposed to air, it isn't ground meat, so only the surface has been exposed to bacteria.
Maybe SV is different, in an anaerobic bag, for longer time? No one recommends SV at 120 F.
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So ... IMHO, you're seriously overthinking this (welcome to my world ... says the voice of overthinking experience).
In the case of relatively thin cuts of meat that are naturally tender (and therefore don't need SV's magical ability to radically alter the texture of tough cuts), SV is nothing more than a convenient substitute for the indirect part of a reverse sear ... so treat it that way. If you reverse seared a nice steak, would you bag it and throw it in ice water? I don't think so. Would it work? You could make it work ... but I personally wouldn't bother. No, you'd find the most screaming-hot way of getting a good sear on it just as soon as you removed it from the indirect side of the grill.
As Dr. Pepper pointed out, if your searing solution isn't hot enough, THAT is what will screw up a good steak. So, other than SV's inherent food-safety considerations (you're correct about being concerned about SV below 131F) just focus on how quickly you can get a good sear on your steak ... then slice, serve and enjoy.
FWIW, here's an old pic of a USDA prime tenderloin that was SV'd for 3 or 4 hours (just because I needed the free time) at 131F, then pulled from the hot tub and immediately seasoned and torched (literally):
Last edited by MBMorgan; October 7, 2021, 10:16 AM.
Yeah, the whole ice bath thing etc is a silly complication combined with worrying too much if the outer 1/8th of an inch is grey.
Searing means heat. Not medium heat. Not "I think the grill is hot" but HOT. Think cast iron pan preheated for several minutes over high heat on the stove hot. How can you tell you don't have enough heat? If you can't get a good sear in 60 seconds or less, you're don't have enough heat.
Yes, some rest time to let the steak cool while you prep sides or whatever is fine. But searing shouldn't take minutes. If it does, there's your issue.
And what IF there is a slight band of grey on the outside? Is the steak inedible? No. In fact, I'm coming to like it as a textural contrast but even if you would prefer it not be there... on a 1.5" steak have 1/4" total be grey is just not a big deal to me.
PS: If you like steak like this, what I'd do is get a bunch when they're a good price (or get a roast and slice it into steaks), add S&P, vac seal and freeze. Mark the bags so you know they're seasoned. Then if you think "I'd like a steak tonight" you can simply hit the freezer, SV that puppy for 90 minutes or more and you're good to go. You can let the steak sit in the fridge overnight so the salt has some time to work before freezing for best results.
Last edited by rickgregory; October 7, 2021, 10:36 AM.
rickgregory When you say 'You can let the steak sit in the fridge overnight so the salt has some time to work', would that be uncovered on a rack, ie: dry brined? Vs, S&P in the vac bag with the steak, sealed, and then sit wet in the bag in the fridge overnight?
Dr. Pepper - I just do it in the vacsealed bag. You just want the salt to penetrate and if you freeze right off, it won't because... the meat is frozen hard
OK guys, thanks for the feedback and ideas!
As I understand it, the steak I SVāed from thaw could cook in the bath for 1-3 hours. So if I have it in the SV bath for say 1.5 hours, take it out, dry it, and season it, then sear it (no ice bath), how is it it can keep on cooking at room temp if it was ok to be in the SV for another 1.5 hrs at 130Ā°? Since I tried the ice bath on this one, next one I will try with no ice bath and compare. I think I will thaw the steak also and properly brine it before SV. Having fun now!
The concept is not that it keeps cooking at room temp. It is that you are at 130 degrees in the center and then applying more heat via searing will take it over 130. So the ice bath theoretically cools the center and edges down enough so that when you sear it, the added heat doesn't take it over 130 degrees. I'm making up numbers here but the temp will go from 130 down to 80 and back up to 130 during the sear. The obvious risk being the sear doesn't heat it back to 130 but it give you more runway to sear it for longer.
As I mentioned above, I don't find it necessary and find the steak patted dry and then rested on a wire rack for around 20 minutes is more than enough time to cool it down enough and dry the surface enough to get a nice good sear and not over cook the inside or have much of a gray band, if any
By the way... if you ever do this for a party etc where people like a variety of doneness, do this:
The day before fire up the SV. Cook a batch of steak on the lower doneness (say, rare). When they've cooked through, removed and shock in ice bath. Then increase the water temp to the next highest doneness and repeat.
When they're all done and have cooled in the ice bath, refrigerate them all.
Next day, setup the SV again to the LOWEST temp. Plop all of the steaks in to reheat for an hour. Then remove and sear for service.
So, if you have some people who like steak at 132, some at 140, cook the 132 batch, shock and refrigerate. Bring the water bath to 140, do the same. For reheating, bring the water to 130 or so. That way the 132 batch doesnt cook more and the 140 batch will be hot enough.
I told you a 2 hour debate would ensue. Yet all I hear is a lot of chit chat and opinion. Let's put your money where your mouth is like MBMorgan did, show me the beef. Here's SV to 122*F, ice bathed for 30 minutes then seared on a 700*F grill grate flat side. Put up or shut up
smokenoob It's hard to say, I do so many of them. I go for the color and degree of sear. I'd have to estimate 1-1/2 to 2 minutes per side, flip-flopping every 30 seconds.
So that's the question, though... was it warm or hot internally when you ate it? I can eat meat that's been SV to 130, then chilled cold and left cold. It's just cold medium-rare meat. I don't want cold meat. I'm not saying yours IS, I'm asking, is that enough sear and heat to get the internal temp back up to a pleasing mouth feel?
Searing a steak to a perfect mallard (edit: Maillard thanks Troutman) reaction is a learned skill. I cook a lot of steaks but not weekly for sure. So I need more practice and my searing results are no where near any of the pics here. I mean, the steaks are good but room for searing improvement.
Are there a lot of folks here that have mastered it straight off from the sous vide bath? Sure.
For a sous vide newbie, the ice bath gives you more time to dial in that sear, without overclocking the meat and losing a good amount of the sous vide benefits in hitting that perfect temp.
If you haven't mastered the art of searing a steak, ice bath or no ice bath, your steak is not going to be seared perfectly either way.
I would favor the ice bath until you have mastered the sear and then maybe you can skip it since you know how to get that perfect sear.
Agree the formula is simple but the actual execution is quite hard. We wouldn't have so many threads and debates on the topic if everyone could nail it easily.
you may want to invest in one of those Fancy Creme Brulee Flame Things (not the low-power ones for amateurs; get the one that uses those larger camping butane canisters, 3 for $5) with the detachable head. It's more for tweaking the final sear/fat render rather than a full sear. (The SEARZ-ALL would be for that purpose, but some people may think that's overkill vs something smaller)
if you get more serious about sousvide, you may want to consider things like neoprene heat-retaining wraps for the container, and something to act as a cover (alum foil is common) -- all in the goal to help retain a steady heat level. And something that can help weigh the baggie down under the water surface.
I'll put in a positive plug for the SearzAll here. I've been using one for several years. It works very well as a handheld "salamander" (broiler) but it's a little slow. I wouldn't want to do more than three or four steaks with it at a time. One of its main advantages is that you don't get any nasty propane taste from it ... something that has been pointed out by a number of folks who use a traditional pointy-flame torch that concentrates all its heat on a very small area.
That was my problem with the Searzall. I have one, I never use it anymore. Too slow. Even just doing 2-3 steaks, it took me forever. My weedburner torch works quite well.
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One final timing tip: SV your steak(s) at whatever temp is 5*-8* below your perfect finish temp for 1.5-2 hours (or a bit longer if doing directly from frozen). Then, remove from bag and let sit at room temp and pre-heat whatever you are using to sear to really, really, really hot.
Then, re-read this entire post. By the time you finish, the steak will be cooled enough and ready for the sear! Bon Appetite!
TroutmanMBMorgan Here are some pics of past sous vide and sear cooks without using an ice bath. Minimal gray banding and nice and warm on the inside. I think like everyone else has said the key is getting a sear on the meat FAST. I use my Blaze grill and a piece of GrillGrate flipped over flat side up to maximize contact with the meat. I preheat it for 15 minutes minimum on full blast.
IdahoJim has just posted a reference to a Meathead review of a small wood-fired smoke & sear machine. From the review: ' But once you get the hang of it, you will have amazing smoky steaks. If you have a sous-vide machine, cook the meat to about 115Ā°F in the water bath, and then sear it on 5 on the Cook-Air. Incredible tenderness and flavor.' So, that is SV to only 115, then go directly to very high temp sear.
I think the lesson is not to SV to your target temp (eg: 132) and then immediately sear, or you will most definitely end up with a medium well piece of meat.
smokenoob no need to thaw before cooking sous vide. Take it out of the vac bag, season and reseal. Toss in the hot tub time machine.
I always salt me meats when I get home from the store. If meat goes in the freezer for future use, I know it's already salted
noob here, checking back in from a farm in Andersonville Ga. We are camping, flying remote controlled aircraft, drinkinā & cookinā. Tonight Iām reheating smoked vac packed wibs in the sous vide! Shout out to bbqLuv who asked about cookinā & freezinā wibs. These cooked & froze wibs and bathed in the sous vide wereā¦ā¦..about an 8 on a scale of 10. Just slightly drier and a little more fall off the bone. I did them at 1.5 hours from frozen @ 150Ā°, next time I think I will try to thaw first and sous vide for only one hour at 150Ā°. Overall way happier withe vs microwaved reheat!
... says the voice of overthinking experience).
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