No connections…again

[STEbbq]

Key products involved:

Thermopro https://a.co/d/iDIkawB
Combustion 1st Gen with 2 probes plus booster/screen
Large Big Green Egg
PK300
Router is TP-Deco 6E https://a.co/d/bk4danm

All smokers are located at end of driveway in pretty standard suburban lot. Screens are left with smokers for any boosting capacity.

Nothing connects anymore unless I am standing within 10 feet of smokers, so my house is a dead zone.

This annoys me. Any thoughts?

[GolfGeezer]

One thing of note is that your router setup is immaterial for either the Thermopro or the Combustion Inc Gen 1 devices. Both those use Bluetooth to connect to whatever device (smartphone or iPad or similar) you have running their related App. So, the Thermopro display or the CI boosters and Display do not use the WiFi capabilities of your router.

Bluetooth is notorious for having its signal deflected/blocked by just about anything, particularly if they are outside your house. Walls, mirrors, doors, etc all degrade Bluetooth a lot. I presume that if you are standing at the top of the driveway, things are fine, but if not ....

I guess I should have asked if they were working and now do not. If so, what may have changed?

[STEbbq]

Suggesting the capabilities declined over time….sounds a tad nuts.

I bought the Thermopro in June 2023, the Combustion arrived in December 2022, the PK300 in November 2022, and the BGE in October 2023.

Looking at the dates, I am almost inclined to point to the thickness of the new smokers driving the issue. The Akorn and MB560 were much much thinner.

[GolfGeezer]

The cooker materials make a huge difference. For example, when use any of my wireless probes in our home oven, whether FireBoard Pulse or RFX or Combustion Inc Gen 1 or 2, the base units or boosters or gateway or display need to be right next to it. Otherwise, WiFi or Bluetooth or the new S1G, the probes will disconnect. Using them in my kettle in the backyard, they work fine using WiFi. Still a bit sketchy with Bluetooth.

[STEbbq]

So I am hearing I should find a new WiFi thermometer.

[GolfGeezer]

You're asking a member of The Pit whether you should buy a new cooking tool?? Well, since you suggested it 😁 I would recommend the Thermoworks RFX starter kit.

[STEbbq]

GolfGeezer

So, I essentially recapped the above in my email to Combustion and asked for upgrade options because I see this as a smoker thickness issue.

My hope is that Combustion will give me an upgrade offer that makes sense to take for the Gen2.

Would you happen to knows pros and cons between the Gen2 and Thermoworks RFX?

I need two thermometers really. One “primo” one for leave-in with the meats and one for”cheap” one or at least a cheap probe that I can leave on the grate to ensure I have the right grill temp for the meats. Both really probably need WiFi to punch through the thickness.

If I can upgrade both, happy to offload the older units here for someone who has smokers directly on their deck.

[STEbbq]

Alternatively, I could toss the meat on early with the Combustion probes inserted and use the ambient temp as the guide. That would probably work.

Only for brisket not ribs or steak though.

[GolfGeezer]

I think I need to clarify something first. As far as I am aware, all the wireless probes (not the boosters or displays or base units) that are inserted into the food being cooked do NOT do WiFi in and of themselves. They use a version of Bluetooth or the new S1G to communicate with a base unit of some kind. CI's probes, Gen 1 or 2, connect via BT to a Booster or the Display or both. The new Gen 2 Booster has WiFi and BT, the new Gen 2 Display has WiFi and BT.

So, the thickness of your cooker impacts the new Gen 2 CI probes in the same way as it does with the Gen 1 probes.

Fireboard Pulse and Thermoworks RFX use their own versions of S1G in lieu of Bluetooth (although FB needs an add-on S1G antenna - if you don't get one, the FB falls back on Bluetooth I think) . S1G runs at a lower frequency, thus has longer range and more "penetrating" power. Both the Pulse and RFX probes are impacted by thickness as well, but their S1G signals handle thickness and distance better. Both the RFX Gateway and the FB2 or FB Drive provide WiFi. CI's new Gen 2 Boosters and new Gen 2 Display also have WiFi - the key difference is that CI's Boosters and Display still communicate via Bluetooth to the probes, and thus face more of challenge with thickness and distance to the probes themselves.

Thus, I find that no matter which one I use, the base unit (or Booster and Display in CI's case) need to be right next to the cooker to provide the best connection to the food probes. Then their WiFi gives you the range to monitor from anywhere.

I may have muddled this up, so please let me know what CI says. Or some other tech head on The Pit may have a better understanding.

[STEbbq]

No, it all makes sense. I recall your work on this in the past.

It sounds like I can be relatively agnostic on the booster and probe for the smoker to booster connection but the unknown variable is what connection will be good enough to make it back to the house. I’d have to compare the Gen2 upgrade cost against the price of the other two and see which one has a “cheap” probe that I can use for just the grill temp lighting phase. Thank you for all this help my friend.

[RichieB]

I have the 2 probe RFX. It works great, no connection loss, opposite TempSpike. Its not cheap at close to $250.

[J-Melt]

I think upside to RFX is you will not need the cheap second one because it comes with a wired ambient probe.

[RichieB]

J-Melt good point. And your get the probes and ambient temperature the app.

[STEbbq]

Apples to apples comparison:

RFX: Unit plus 2 probes plus ambient probe $239
Fireboard 2: Same as above $199
Combustion: $528 ($349 bundle plus $179 extra probe)

Edited to reflect $239 for Thermoworks given unclear language and multiple posters flagging $239 is right.

[J-Melt]

Looking at Thermoworks website, they have RFX listed as a set for $239 for two wireless probes plus ambient. Maybe you saw the 4 probe price price?

[STEbbq]

J-Melt I hope so. I can’t find the language that makes that clear but if so, then $239 is the right package.

[RichieB]

The 2 probe is $239. The 4 probe is $349.

https://www.thermoworks.com/rfx-starter-kit/

[RichieB]

Then the 2 probe meat and 1 ambient should do. And you can always get more meat probes.

[STEbbq]

My interpretation of the 2 probe kit is that it is one meat probe and one ambient. The language doesn’t change if you go to 4 probe. If it is two probe and one ambient, then $239 is the right price.

[kenrobin]

I have the 2-probe starter kit ($239). It comes with two wireless meat probes and one wired ambient probe.

[RichieB]

STEbbq this is the $239 2 meat 1 ambient probe package. I keep all my ambient probes on spools. I purchased the case for storage. It is similar to what one for my Smoke and DOT.

[STEbbq]

Outstanding. I see it now. Thank you.

[STEbbq]

The FAQ:

https://combustion-inc.myshopify.com/pages/faq?hcUrl=%2Fen-US%2Fquick-faqs-2nd-generation-combustion-tools-964179

”

4. What do I need for WiFi connectivity?

Just one WiFi-enabled device (Display, Booster, or Giant Grill Gauge) to monitor from anywhere.

The WiFi booster is $80 while the new display is $100.

That would seem like my best options with the booster being cheaper. What do you think guys GolfGeezer?

[STEbbq]

https://combustion-inc.myshopify.com/pages/faq?hcUrl=%2Fen-US%2Funderstanding-wifi-display-vs-wifi-booster-which-one-do-you-need-975815

[GolfGeezer]

I would go with the new Gen 2 Display. That will allow your existing Gen 1 probes to connect to it by Bluetooth, then the Display will use WiFi to connect to the App. When you setup the Display, you setup its connectivity to your TP-Link router. Just remember, neither Combustion Inc option provides a very usable ambient temp monitoring (that issue has been covered in several posts and in their FAQs). Their solution, at the moment, is the Giant Grill Gauge which is a WiFi-enabled replacement for most grills dome thermometers. This is not as dependable as a wired, grate-level ambient monitoring, but if you are used to using the dome thermometer to monitor grill temps, then this approach is excellent to get that WiFi-enabled, monitor-anywhere capability. The Giant Grill Gauge is limited in the sense that it only helps monitor the grill it is installed on.

That are reasons why I like the RFX starter (2 wireless temp probes, plus the Gateway which uses a wired ambient probe), but it certainly has a steeper initial cost (CI Display $100, Giant Grill Gauge $130 (also not shipping yet) - Thermoworks RFX Starter kit $250-ish).

[STEbbq]

I agree the Grill Guage is not ideal if you have multiple smokers. I am okay using the current thermopro since the lighting phase usually requires a degree of close monitoring.

I was kinda leaning towards the booster instead of the display as the upgraded display didn’t seem to offer anything other than WiFi so might as well save a few bucks. It seems like the booster will still connect with my Gen1 probes and display so I guess I don’t see any downside?

[GolfGeezer]

I’m not sure you can connect 2 probes to 1 Booster at the same time. That is why I recommended the Display. You might need to ask CI Support about that.

[STEbbq]

Ooh…great point. Let me see what I can find out.

[STEbbq]

This says one device to bring entire system online.

https://combustion-inc.myshopify.com/pages/faq?hcUrl=%2Fen-US%2Funderstanding-wifi-display-vs-wifi-booster-which-one-do-you-need-975815

[GolfGeezer]

That FAQ certainly implies that a single WiFi Booster will handle more than 1 probe for connecting them to the WiFi net and register with the App.

UPDATE: on re-reading the FAQ, I think you are good with just a WiFi Booster since you use the App on your phone, and do not really use the Display to see temps. Even then, the FAQ states you can still use the Gen 1 Display. The basic thing here is that all of them connect together via Bluetooth. The WiFi Booster will then give them connection to the net.

[jfmorris]

I think the cooker wall thickness will impact a wireless probe like the Combustion. That Thermopro unit however uses wired probes, so the bluetooth is outside the cooker, sitting on a side/front shelf I assume. So THAT particular unit would not be affected by cooker wall thickness. Note that the Combustion booster unit converts from BT to Wifi I think, so I assume Wifi reaches out to your grills?

Something that you may not realize is that bluetooth signal is in two frequency bands - 2.4GHz and 5GHz - that are also occupied by Wifi signals. Something that could be an impact are changes in your neighbors wifi routers, causing more interference in those two frequency bands. Nothing you can do about that however.

Bluetooth for me doesn't work through many walls, if any, so I've never used it for an outdoor thermometer. I've used Wifi but at my house, the wifi dies by the end of the driveway. The interior walls plus exterior brick walls are too much for it. I will say that my Thermoworks Smoke, with its dedicated remote, works well through walls, and works even where there is no wifi coverage. I think the same would be true for the RFX, *but* if you want to measure ambient, you would have to leave the RFX base unit at the grill, and have it in wifi range to see readings on your phone.

[STEbbq]

The booster will let me see ambient temps from the Combustion once inserted into the meat. I recognize it is not perfect but checking against the thermopro side by side it is close enough. The thermopro is only for the lighting phase of the operation as I don’t want to sit bare combustion probes on the grill by themselves. I am okay with that not being WiFi as I usually have to pay close attention to get the initial smoker dialed in.

[STEbbq]

I bought the booster! Thanks all!