QVQ Medium Rare Brisket - Step by Step

[Sweaty Paul]

I’m with Donw. I aggressively trim my briskets. The flat has no more than 1/4 inch of fat and the point is as nekkid as I can get it. I concur that choice grade brisket should have less intramuscular fat. I also favor injecting my choice briskets with a combination of beef stock and prime dust. Good luck on your cook!!

[John Henry]

Reading through these posts again today, based on "real world" experience by our AR experts, I am now most definitely convinced of one undeniable fact regarding SV and Q. As our founder and leader MH noted in his post of 1.10.23:

"One other thing. I recently had some people argue strongly that smoking and rub before sv makes a significant diff. I tested that against smoking and rub after and asked several others to test that theory. It is my solid firm belief that smoking, rub, oil before the bag has no significant impact other than a smoke ring. If you don't smoke or rub after you can taste the smoke and rub, but it is faint. Salting before is important, however."

"In my world there is SVQ. No QVQ."

Taking MH's advice as foundational, would add these opinions, based on posts and also my experiences:

1. As MH points out, salt for a dry brine is in order for SVQ. Am also thinking to keep the salt very light and be sure to allow plenty of time for the salt to re-incorporate to the meat. Yes, I am theorizing here that LESS THAN the 1/2 teaspoon per lb. rule of thumb be reduced (more info on why to follow.)

2. Save ALL THE OTHER meat seasoning for AFTER the SV step. This is noted in several posts that over the years, have noted that the purge from pre-seasoned meats prior to SV are too salty to be useful. What a terrible waste of a wonderful resource. We keep the dry brine amount of salt low so that our purge will avoid any hint of being too salty.

3. With very light salt for dry brining, the purge is one of the very best things about SVQ. The purge (especially if then boiled and strained) is at the heart of true meat flavor. The purge can then be used as a baste, as a mix-in with bbq sauce or au jus for serving. But it needs to be collected BEFORE seasoning the meat for the the Q step on the cooker.

Having the purge available to, in some manner, "re-hydrate" the meat, also helps the fact that in step #1, we didn't fully dry brine with normal amounts of salt. The solution for that problem is that we have preserved the very low salt content purge for re-application to the meat in a manner the pitmaster chooses.

(I am such a giant fan of how the purge improves my final product, that if my SV'd meat has been ice-plunged and then refrigerated, I will often re-seal the empty SV bag and then boil the "empty" bag, hoping to reclaim some of the fats and juices to increase the yield of purge.)

The purge can also be supplemented by use of a higher quality grocery store salt-free beef, chicken or pork broth, although would advise to use these only if the volume of purge is so low that the small amount won't be a material addition to your final product. (If you can't find salt free pork broth, then it is often advocated to make a 50-50 mix of beef and chicken broths (salt free, of course.)

4. Then, when time to season the meat for the BBQ cooker, "have at it."

5. Am really interested to follow the great posters and AR "Pros from Dover" re: the smoking step of SVQ following the SV step; i.e. is a lower temp more useful to "setting" the bark, or rather the higher temps (?), as outlined by posters far better and more accomplished cooks than I.

Yet, reading MH's note that "bark is jerky" makes me want to carefully test taking the SV'd meat (then seasoned) onto a very hot smoker for a brief period of time, to, in effect "burn on" the bark. I don't know and am not advocating, but rather, just asking and theorizing here for something that I hope to soon test.

[Donw]

Just wondering how much you trim your brisket? I personally am an aggressive trimmer leaving no more than about a 1/4 in fat on outside and remove a good deal where the point meets the flat. It being Choice should indicate that there will be less interstitial fat than Prime. I personally haven’t experienced a lot of unrendered fat but I SV at 145. Just my 2¢

[Steak Snake]

I’ve landed on this thread about 100 times though Google so I thought I would give it a go. I have a packer I picked up at Kroger for $1.99 lb that has dry brined for 24 hours.

My concern is since it is not Prime grade am I going to have a large sections of unrendered fat at 130F. Some of the point pictures here don’t look great and I figure the my brisket will have larger striations of fat. https://lipavi.com/recipe/a-tale-of-...-b-q-solution/

Is it just a time issue? How much more time would you suggest? If it is a temp issue what is the lowest temp I can go?

[nikolausp]

You can perhaps see how I'm kinda confused.... On one hand I'm told the fat doesn't render in the 130s (like my chosen temp of 136F), and then on the other hand, Polarbear777 has no problem rendering fat at 132F.

[Polarbear777]

I’ve done dozens of briskets 132f for 72 hours and never had a problem with unrendered fat. You want to stay above 131 to ensure pasteurization.

Beef ribs can have some tough elastin that can make it through. It’s the kind of stuff that won’t break down no matter what you do. That you either have to trim before or after.

[nikolausp]

....and then added a decent coating 16mesh black pepper, and a pretty light sprinkle of garlic powder & onion powder. I then put them on a cold recteq smoker, and set smoker to 200F , and let it go for 4 hours. I then took them off, sliced sliced and ate.

So no.... no smoke before Sous Vide 72hr bath.

[nikolausp]

I thawed the two frozen 4-rib slabs (from Creekstone farms) just enough to slice them into four 2-rib sections, then kosher salted them a bit, vacuum sealed into 4 individual bags, and into 136 degree water for exactly 72 hours (Coleman 24can Party Stacker cooler)

I then did the overnight rest in the fridge. The next day, around 3:30pm, I kosher salted the ribs a little bit more (since a lot of the original salt would get lost in the purge I've read)...

[Meathead]

I see it. I have no idea why. Are you sure you did not smoke first? Maybe something in the rub?

[nikolausp]

Ya... here's a pic right after pulling off the smoker and slicing. Can see the smoke ring, especially on the left side here:

https://i.postimg.cc/P5DgR1x6/PXL-20230103-012354314-1.jpg

[Meathead]

Wow. That's rare! Usually that can't happen after the myoglobin turns tan during sv

[Meathead]

If you have a recent copy of the free temperature magnet or the free ebook on sous vide given to members I recommend 145 for 24 hours for tough cuts as a starting point. Try that and if you want different results you can increase temp or time, or decrease.

[nikolausp]

One other thing. I recently had some people argue strongly that smoking and rub before sv makes a significant diff. I tested that against smoking and rub after and asked several others to test that theory. It is my solid firm belief that smoking, rub, oil before the bag has no significant impact other than a smoke ring. If you don't smoke or rub after you can taste the smoke and rub, but it is faint. Salting before is important, however.

In my world there is SVQ. No QVQ.

On my Dino Beef Ribs last week, I got a pretty nice smoke ring, and I did them SVQ, not QVQ.....

[nikolausp]

nikolausp There is no fat rendered at that temp. It gets soft but does not melt and drip off. The latest version of the temperature magnet that went to press this wee (5.5) has this info:

95-130°F (35-54°C) Animal fats start to soften and liquefy.
300°F (149°C) Butter starts to smoke.
325-375°F (163-191°C) Extra virgin olive oil begins to smoke.
350-375°F (177-191°C) Best oil temp for most deep frying.
361°F (183°C) Some animal fats begins to smoke.
370°F (185°C) Lard begins to smoke.
375-400°F (190-205°C) Virgin avocado oil begins to smoke.
390°F (195°C) Grapeseed oil begins to smoke.
400°F (204°C) Canola oil begins to smoke.
400-450°F (205-230°C) Vegetable oil begins to smoke.
440°F (227°C) Inexpensive olive oil and sunflower oil begin to smoke.
450°F (232°C) Peanut oil, corn oil, soybean oil begin to smoke.
482°F (250°C) Ghee begins to smoke.
510°F (265°C) Safflower oil begins to smoke.
600-700°F (316-371°C) Flashpoint: Smoke from burning fat can burst into flame. Never use water to extinguish burning fat.

So between 95 and 130 (on your temp magnet chart) it will start to soften and liquefy, but liquefying is different than melting enough to run off / drip out of the meat?

Any idea what might be the lowest / minimum possible 2 to 3 day Sous Vide temp on something like Dino Beef Ribs or Brisket to get the fat to melt and drip off more?

Also, thanks for the reply and info!

PS Edit - On the very 1st post of this thread, Troutman literally mentions how the fat is rendered on his medium rare brisket... never getting above medium rare temps... so you can perhaps see how I'm a bit confused on this Fat Rendering thing.

[Meathead]

One other thing. I recently had some people argue strongly that smoking and rub before sv makes a significant diff. I tested that against smoking and rub after and asked several others to test that theory. It is my solid firm belief that smoking, rub, oil before the bag has no significant impact other than a smoke ring. If you don't smoke or rub after you can taste the smoke and rub, but it is faint. Salting before is important, however.

In my world there is SVQ. No QVQ.