I will take some of that. Do you ship?
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This past Friday I smoked a full packer, about 14lbs trimmed.
I used the SVQ method. Salt in the bag, 63 hours @ 133°. Was set for 65 hours but I had to leave for a little league tourney. Ice bath in my SV cooler for around 6 hours until I got home. Smoke around 250-275. Misplaced my meat thermometer, so I pulled after 1.5 hours to test. The flat was incredible. It was still cool at the thickest point/flat...still delicious. I removed the point and rendered it into burnt ends in the oven.
Next time I think I'll separate the flat and point before smoking. If I do that, the 1.5-2 hours in the smoker should be perfect for both.
My rub consisted of a combination of S&P, Meathead's Smoked Red Meat Seasoning and a little Kinder's Buttery Steak Rub.Attached FilesLast edited by GoldenJet; June 27, 2022, 12:10 AM.Comment
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In anticipation of a July 4th weekend brisket cook, I decided to experiment with the QVQ method using a choice grade, 6.7 lb. flat from Costco. I'm not experienced enough with SV to attempt something for guests using a new process. Thanks and a tip o' the hat to Troutman for his expert QVQ method write-up. Also, I think it's time for me to give a huge shout out to everyone who has posted on this thread and made my attempt less challenging. Here's how it went down.
Step 1: This flat was already trimmed so well I didn't need to do anything to it. Ergo, I dry brined it overnight then dusted it with the Raichlen Brisket rub. Filled the pellet grill with hickory pellets, set the temp to 250F and put the flat on. It took about 2:10 hours to get to my target IT of 125F.
Step 2: I double-sealed, double-bagged the brisket and tossed it in the SV bath at 145F for 50 hours. I wanted a slightly more 'traditional' finish on my brisket than medium rare. Troutman 's point looked more irregular in shape than my flat so that's why I went with 50 hours as opposed to 52.
Step 3: After the SV bath, I gave the brisket the pinch test and it seemed quite tender. Into an ice bath it went for 30 minutes. Afterwards, into the fridge for 1:15 hours (rationale: dinner was to be at 7:00 and I wanted the brisket on for the second smoke by 5:00). After the ice bath, IT was 71.6F. Dusted with more rub before the second smoke, an important step.
Step 4: Brisket went back on the pellet grill with initial set point of 250F and an IT target of 135F. One hour into the cook, I cranked the grill up to 300F to finish and set the bark. Took it off at IT of 136.6F.
Conclusions: This is brisket nirvana!!! The bark was above average, tenderness was better than anything I've achieved previously and the taste was mind-blowing. My next flat is from D'artagnan and I will follow roughly the same process but will refrigerate it for more than 24 hours so I can do a second smoke for longer and hopefully have a better, crunchier bark. Otherwise, I ain't gonna change a thing.
6.7 lb flat from Costco.
After the first smoke.
Double sealed, double bagged. Leaks are verboten!
Into the spa.
Two cups of purge from this flat. (I tried making a wine reduction jus but it was far too salty. (I agree with MH, most of the rub comes off in the SV bath.)
Post SV bath, before 2nd coating of rub.
More rub. An important step!
So moist, so tender, so tasteful! Look at that smoke ring!Last edited by WayneT; June 27, 2022, 07:02 PM.Comment
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So, I’ve got my amazing QVQ brisket in the fridge, vacuum wrapped for a SV reheat to serve tomorrow night. I plan to take it to 135F in the spa.
What have others experienced with SV reheated QVQ brisket. Specifically, do you lose much moisture and what is the condition of the bark afterwards? Does this officially make it a QVQV brisket???Last edited by WayneT; June 30, 2022, 07:41 PM.Comment
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I've read through this whole thread. Thanks to Troutman Polarbear777 Potkettleblack Meathead and everybody else for the info, pics etc.
I see a lot of talk about Tenderness in these low medium rare QVQ or SVQ cooks with 2 to 3 days in the Sous Vide, but what I haven't seen talked about as much is Fat Rendering. Isn't 131-135 a bit low for rending a desirable amount fat out? The reason I ask is that while new to the whole 2 to 3 day low-temp SV, I did attempt a 72 hour SVQ last week on some Dino Beef Ribs. I did them 136deg for 72 hours, then fridged overnight, then the next afternoon I smoked them for 3 hours low & slow around 200deg for nice bark.... and the finished product , while tasty, had so much fat still intact that it was a bit too rich. We still enjoyed them because, TASTY.... but I'm curious how to get more fat rendered while still keeping it Medium Rare? Last night for dinner we had leftover SVQ beef ribs, and I decided to try and render the fat more, so I heated the Sous Vide water to 155 and let them hot tub for 4 hours. They were a bit more pleasing to eat because it felt less overwhelmingly fatty to eat, while still fairly pink and tender and really juicy. Thoughts?Comment
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nikolausp There is no fat rendered at that temp. It gets soft but does not melt and drip off. The latest version of the temperature magnet that went to press this wee (5.5) has this info:
95-130°F (35-54°C) Animal fats start to soften and liquefy.
300°F (149°C) Butter starts to smoke.
325-375°F (163-191°C) Extra virgin olive oil begins to smoke.
350-375°F (177-191°C) Best oil temp for most deep frying.
361°F (183°C) Some animal fats begins to smoke.
370°F (185°C) Lard begins to smoke.
375-400°F (190-205°C) Virgin avocado oil begins to smoke.
390°F (195°C) Grapeseed oil begins to smoke.
400°F (204°C) Canola oil begins to smoke.
400-450°F (205-230°C) Vegetable oil begins to smoke.
440°F (227°C) Inexpensive olive oil and sunflower oil begin to smoke.
450°F (232°C) Peanut oil, corn oil, soybean oil begin to smoke.
482°F (250°C) Ghee begins to smoke.
510°F (265°C) Safflower oil begins to smoke.
600-700°F (316-371°C) Flashpoint: Smoke from burning fat can burst into flame. Never use water to extinguish burning fat.Comment
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One other thing. I recently had some people argue strongly that smoking and rub before sv makes a significant diff. I tested that against smoking and rub after and asked several others to test that theory. It is my solid firm belief that smoking, rub, oil before the bag has no significant impact other than a smoke ring. If you don't smoke or rub after you can taste the smoke and rub, but it is faint. Salting before is important, however.
In my world there is SVQ. No QVQ.Comment
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Originally posted by Meathead View Post
So between 95 and 130 (on your temp magnet chart) it will start to soften and liquefy, but liquefying is different than melting enough to run off / drip out of the meat?
Any idea what might be the lowest / minimum possible 2 to 3 day Sous Vide temp on something like Dino Beef Ribs or Brisket to get the fat to melt and drip off more?
Also, thanks for the reply and info!
PS Edit - On the very 1st post of this thread, Troutman literally mentions how the fat is rendered on his medium rare brisket... never getting above medium rare temps... so you can perhaps see how I'm a bit confused on this Fat Rendering thing.Last edited by nikolausp; January 10, 2023, 09:39 AM.Comment
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I’ve done dozens of briskets 132f for 72 hours and never had a problem with unrendered fat. You want to stay above 131 to ensure pasteurization.
Beef ribs can have some tough elastin that can make it through. It’s the kind of stuff that won’t break down no matter what you do. That you either have to trim before or after.
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On my Dino Beef Ribs last week, I got a pretty nice smoke ring, and I did them SVQ, not QVQ.....Originally posted by Meathead View PostComment
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I thawed the two frozen 4-rib slabs (from Creekstone farms) just enough to slice them into four 2-rib sections, then kosher salted them a bit, vacuum sealed into 4 individual bags, and into 136 degree water for exactly 72 hours (Coleman 24can Party Stacker cooler)
I then did the overnight rest in the fridge. The next day, around 3:30pm, I kosher salted the ribs a little bit more (since a lot of the original salt would get lost in the purge I've read)... -
....and then added a decent coating 16mesh black pepper, and a pretty light sprinkle of garlic powder & onion powder. I then put them on a cold recteq smoker, and set smoker to 200F , and let it go for 4 hours. I then took them off, sliced sliced and ate.
So no.... no smoke before Sous Vide 72hr bath.
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I’ve landed on this thread about 100 times though Google so I thought I would give it a go. I have a packer I picked up at Kroger for $1.99 lb that has dry brined for 24 hours.
My concern is since it is not Prime grade am I going to have a large sections of unrendered fat at 130F. Some of the point pictures here don’t look great and I figure the my brisket will have larger striations of fat. https://lipavi.com/recipe/a-tale-of-...-b-q-solution/
Is it just a time issue? How much more time would you suggest? If it is a temp issue what is the lowest temp I can go?Comment
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Just wondering how much you trim your brisket? I personally am an aggressive trimmer leaving no more than about a 1/4 in fat on outside and remove a good deal where the point meets the flat. It being Choice should indicate that there will be less interstitial fat than Prime. I personally haven’t experienced a lot of unrendered fat but I SV at 145. Just my 2¢ -
I’m with Donw. I aggressively trim my briskets. The flat has no more than 1/4 inch of fat and the point is as nekkid as I can get it. I concur that choice grade brisket should have less intramuscular fat. I also favor injecting my choice briskets with a combination of beef stock and prime dust. Good luck on your cook!!
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Reading through these posts again today, based on "real world" experience by our AR experts, I am now most definitely convinced of one undeniable fact regarding SV and Q. As our founder and leader MH noted in his post of 1.10.23:
"One other thing. I recently had some people argue strongly that smoking and rub before sv makes a significant diff. I tested that against smoking and rub after and asked several others to test that theory. It is my solid firm belief that smoking, rub, oil before the bag has no significant impact other than a smoke ring. If you don't smoke or rub after you can taste the smoke and rub, but it is faint. Salting before is important, however."
"In my world there is SVQ. No QVQ."
Taking MH's advice as foundational, would add these opinions, based on posts and also my experiences:
1. As MH points out, salt for a dry brine is in order for SVQ. Am also thinking to keep the salt very light and be sure to allow plenty of time for the salt to re-incorporate to the meat. Yes, I am theorizing here that LESS THAN the 1/2 teaspoon per lb. rule of thumb be reduced (more info on why to follow.)
2. Save ALL THE OTHER meat seasoning for AFTER the SV step. This is noted in several posts that over the years, have noted that the purge from pre-seasoned meats prior to SV are too salty to be useful. What a terrible waste of a wonderful resource. We keep the dry brine amount of salt low so that our purge will avoid any hint of being too salty.
3. With very light salt for dry brining, the purge is one of the very best things about SVQ. The purge (especially if then boiled and strained) is at the heart of true meat flavor. The purge can then be used as a baste, as a mix-in with bbq sauce or au jus for serving. But it needs to be collected BEFORE seasoning the meat for the the Q step on the cooker.
Having the purge available to, in some manner, "re-hydrate" the meat, also helps the fact that in step #1, we didn't fully dry brine with normal amounts of salt. The solution for that problem is that we have preserved the very low salt content purge for re-application to the meat in a manner the pitmaster chooses.
(I am such a giant fan of how the purge improves my final product, that if my SV'd meat has been ice-plunged and then refrigerated, I will often re-seal the empty SV bag and then boil the "empty" bag, hoping to reclaim some of the fats and juices to increase the yield of purge.)
The purge can also be supplemented by use of a higher quality grocery store salt-free beef, chicken or pork broth, although would advise to use these only if the volume of purge is so low that the small amount won't be a material addition to your final product. (If you can't find salt free pork broth, then it is often advocated to make a 50-50 mix of beef and chicken broths (salt free, of course.)
4. Then, when time to season the meat for the BBQ cooker, "have at it."
5. Am really interested to follow the great posters and AR "Pros from Dover" re: the smoking step of SVQ following the SV step; i.e. is a lower temp more useful to "setting" the bark, or rather the higher temps (?), as outlined by posters far better and more accomplished cooks than I.
Yet, reading MH's note that "bark is jerky" makes me want to carefully test taking the SV'd meat (then seasoned) onto a very hot smoker for a brief period of time, to, in effect "burn on" the bark. I don't know and am not advocating, but rather, just asking and theorizing here for something that I hope to soon test.
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