Using SV-que for brisket and I have a problem

[smokinpreacher]

In the midst of a SV cook of a brisket at about 22 hours, and while I was away from home for a while, my SV device went belly up (temp sensor failed). The water temp dropped to about 125F. While away I watched on my phone as the temp dropped , diagnosed the problem, and ordered a new SV device with overnight delivery. When I returned home I iced the brisket and placed it in the refrigerator.

As an aside here, this makes a great case for the wi-fi connected device over a BT or no networking at all.

When the new device arrives, I plan to resume the cook, adding a few hours to bring the brisket back to 155. I have done several SV-que brisket cooks with great success, but never dealt with this situation.

As I am in uncharted territory, for me, I am concerned about the final product.

If anyone has experience in this area I would greatly appreciate your comments. I will post how it turns out.

[Troutman]

A lot has to do with the time the protein sat below the safe zone. If it was relatively short and only got down to 125*, it sounds like you’re ok. As long as you ice bathed and refrigerated in the interim.

As to the final product I don’t think it will matter. Maybe a bit more time wouldn’t hurt your cause. I have never had this happen, hope things work out for you.

[smokinpreacher]

Thanks. I'll let y'all know.

[fzxdoc]

What Troutman said. The key is to determine the amount of time it was in the danger zone 40° to 140°F. Here's what they say:

---

The Danger Zone...

This refers to the range of temperatures at which bacteria can grow - usually between 40° and 140° F (4° and 60° C). For food safety, keep food below or above the "danger zone." Remember the 2-Hour Rule: Discard any perishables (foods that can spoil or become contaminated by bacteria if unrefrigerated) left out at room temperature for longer than two hours. When temperatures are above 90° F (32° C), discard food after one hour.

My motto is usually "when in doubt, throw it out", most especially if children or elderly people are going to eat it, but then no one wants food poisoning, no matter what their age.

Kathryn

[smokinpreacher]

Thanks for the graphic. Good advice! The brisket was vacuum-sealed and brought to 155 for the 20 or so hours, so I'm fairly confident that every bad bug in the bag was killed. I received the new device and have restarted the cook. I'm bringing it back to 155F and will hold it there, still in the bug-free zone for 24 more hours.

[DogFaced PonySoldier]

Absolutely. At 150°F for 20 hours, still sealed, etc., even if you dropped to 125 for a few hours, then chilled and bring back to temp, I think you're perfectly fine. I would have zero concerns serving that, personally.

[Nate]

Welcome from Indiana!

[smokinpreacher]

Thanks

[DWCowles]

Welcome smokinpreacher

[smokinpreacher]

Thanks

[fzxdoc]

Thanks for the graphic. Good advice! The brisket was vacuum-sealed and brought to 155 for the 20 or so hours, so I'm fairly confident that every bad bug in the bag was killed. I received the new device and have restarted the cook. I'm bringing it back to 155F and will hold it there, still in the bug-free zone for 24 more hours.

smokinpreacher , heating meat up to a safe temp doesn't kill the toxins that are formed as the meat cools back down, staying too long in the danger zone. Here's what the FDA says about that:

One of the most common causes of foodborne illness is
improper cooling of cooked foods. Because bacteria are
everywhere, even after food is cooked to a safe internal
temperature, they can be reintroduced to the food and
then reproduce. For this reason leftovers must be put
in shallow containers for quick cooling and refrigerated
within 2 hours.

And this, from the Washington State Department of Health:

Myth: If you let food sit out more than 2 hours, you can make it safe by reheating it really hot.


FACT: Some bacteria, such as staphylococcus (staph) and Bacillus cereus, produce toxins not destroyed by high cooking temperatures. Refrigerate perishable foods within 2 hours in a refrigerator temperature of 40 degrees or below.

I admit to being pretty strict with myself regarding food safety, which is why I probably throw out stuff that may be perfectly fine instead of taking a chance. So take my post with a grain or two of salt.

HTH,
Kathryn

P.S. Here's a really good article by the famous Harold McGee in the New York Times:

Bending the Rules on Bacteria

[smokinpreacher]

Thanks Kathryn. I think the meat stayed in the safe zone, being a large thermal mass, even though the water temp dropped. Moreover, the low temp of the water was not over an hour. If I'm not hugging the porcelain on Monday I'll post the results.

[DogFaced PonySoldier]

Exactly, everything in the bag was surely killed, and it was still sealed up, so I see no opportunity for the "reintroduction" of bacteria that would then create toxins. I think you're good.

[HorseDoctor]

You’re fine!!! Check out the post at "Is it ruined" by Jerod Broussard

[Jerod Broussard]

The neat thing about having facultative bacteria like Salmonella and E.coli in an oxygen depleted environment is the fact they now must generate energy through fermentation (substrate-level phosphorylation) and not respiration (oxidative phosphorylation).

That is significant since they can only produce 1 or 2 molecules of ATP per molecule of glucose.

With oxygen they can produce at least 34 molecules of ATP per molecule of glucose.

Finger is tired of typing on my phone......
​​​

[smokinpreacher]

Thanks, Jerrod, My cellular respiration knowledge is 50+ years old and thereby quite stale.. You've sent me scurrying back to my texts. I hope your finger has recovered.

[smokinpreacher]

The brisket looked great and tasted great with no medical emergencies. Bottom line: my concerns were unfounded and you have a lot of flexibility with SV Thanks for all your comments and assurances. However, if you do not use a vac-sealer, opting instead to use water-displacement method, and if the temp of the meat is not held above 140F before the SV is interrupted, then I would suggest that you follow Kathryn's (@xuQvwLtD) excellent advice and throw it out.

Thanks to all who commented.

[fzxdoc]

Good to know that everything turned out well in the end, smokinpreacher .


Kathryn