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Why big chill sous vide only?

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  • Potkettleblack
    commented on 's reply
    If you're really set against shocking for steaks, you can cook below desired doneness and still get that crust. But I dislike the grey band.

  • Hugh
    replied
    Thanks all

    Leave a comment:


  • fzxdoc
    replied
    I agree, cosmo , the big chill is not necessary if you're going to serve or sear off right away (except perhaps for steak or roasts).

    Rapid chilling is necessary either when you're going to store in the fridge for later use (food safety) or if you want to chill meat down prior to smoking or searing. Chilling meat down prior to smoking is a good idea because smoke is more attracted to cold surfaces, Doc Blonder tells us. Chilling meat down prior to searing is a great extra step for steak because it lets you sear long enough to get that great crust without overshooting your desired interior temperature.

    Kathryn

    Leave a comment:


  • cosmo
    replied
    Mbmorganfzxdoc Don't think it is because of chance of overcooking - that is whole thing behind sous vide. Perhaps the texture "could" change but to be honest it doesn't sit around long enough for that either. The real reason is what fzxdoc quoted - and really only useful if you are going to use later (except of eggs which I will touch on).

    So if you are going to sear right away and eat, then just take out of water, open bag, dry off, sear, and eat.

    However, if you are going to throw in frig to use later you should cool it down first to minimize time in the danger zone.

    The only exception I've found is eggs. The consistency is so temperamental with regards to time that if you are cooking a bunch and can't crack all of them immediately (literally), it helps to chill them to stop the cooking process.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hugh
    replied
    As usual, very thoughtful replies from all Thankyou

    Leave a comment:


  • fzxdoc
    commented on 's reply
    You cook traditionally cooked foods to much higher temps than you usually do in the sous vide. 165 degrees kills most pathogens. But sous vide temp levels for meat, for example, are in the traditional unsafe zone of 40 to 140, Hugh. I don't let foods cool on the counter for long periods of time. They have to stay above 140, or 40-140 for 2 hours or less
    Last edited by fzxdoc; September 2nd, 2017, 02:33 PM.

  • Hugh
    commented on 's reply
    Kathryn - wouldn't the same then be true for traditionally cooked food? Especially if we let it cool on the counter for a few hours and then put it in the fridge for leftovers?

  • fzxdoc
    commented on 's reply
    Great additional info. Thanks, Spinaker .

  • MBMorgan
    commented on 's reply
    Ah yes ... those pesky spores ... forgot about them (I figured there must be a reason for my rapid chilling buried somewhere among those long dormant neurons).

  • Spinaker
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks for the great info Doc!

  • Spinaker
    replied
    Since the meat is being cooked in it own juices, I think the risk is higher. My understanding is that if it is possible to avoid risk, why not do it? But here is some additional information from the Doc. (If you have read this already my apologies for the redundancy.)

    But beyond the convenience factor, rapidly chilling sous vide foods may have an additional benefit according to AmazingRibs.com Science Advisor Prof. Greg Blonder.

    While far from conclusive, Blonder notes that "First, as the meat is reheated, the pH will begin to rise thereby enhancing tenderizing enzymatic activity [enzymes are inhibited by low pH or acidity]. Second, tenderizing enzymes like calpain are always paired with inhibitory proteins like calpastatin, In the live animal these two are part of a regulatory cycle that keeps muscles healthy and sweeps out dead cells. Their levels are maintained in balance. When the animal dies, although no new enzymes are produced, they remain active. As you raise the temperature via the controlled water bath, enzymes increase in activity and more are released from damaged cells.

    "It is possible that the antagonist calpastatin degrades more easily than calpain, leaving more calpain available to tenderize the muscle. So when you sous vide you break apart muscle because calpain is more active, and when you cool the meat it still keeps working because the inhibitory protein has been used up."

    More here.




    Leave a comment:


  • fzxdoc
    replied
    Here's what Douglas Baldwin, food safety sous vide expert, says on his website (link below): Chilling for Later Use

    In the food industry, sous vide is used to extend the shelf life of cooked foods. After pasteurizing, the food is rapidly chilled in its vacuum sealed pouch and refrigerated (or frozen) until needed. Before finishing for service, the food is then reheated in a water bath at or below the temperature it was cooked in. Typically, meat is reheated in a 131°F (55°C) water bath for the times listed in Tables 2.2 or 2.3 since the optimal serving temperature for meat is between 120°F–130°F (50°C–55°C).

    The danger with cook-chill is that pasteurizing does not reduce pathogenic spores to a safe level. If the food is not chilled rapidly enough or is refrigerated for too long, then pathogenic spores can outgrow and multiply to dangerous levels.


    http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-v..._for_Later_Use


    Kathryn

    Leave a comment:


  • MBMorgan
    replied
    Normally you sear after SV. Because SV meat is quite hot (warm?), there is a danger of overcooking the SV meat ... unless you chill it first to minimize the chance of over cooking during the sear. Also, if you want to add smoke to the SV meat, remember that smoke adheres best to a cold surface ... and again, you run the risk of over cooking while smoking the already-done SV meat at 225 for an hour or two.

    Edited to remove an incorrect assertion about the low chances of pathogenic activity while cooling (thanks, Kathryn ( fzxdoc )!)
    Last edited by MBMorgan; September 2nd, 2017, 10:52 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • EdF
    replied
    Maybe more concentrated heat in the bag? Part of the concern is heating up the fridge and its contents, or worse, the freezer. That's assuming you're storing in the bag directly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hugh
    started a topic Why big chill sous vide only?

    Why big chill sous vide only?

    I understand why you want to get your cooked meat down to 40 degrees after cooking to avoid the danger zone before refrigerating.

    What I don't understand is why this is such a big deal in sous vide cooking as compared to a traditional bbq? No one seems to mention it in traditional bbq or cock. Isn't the principal the same with leftovers? Everyone I know has always let meat cool on the counter while eating and then throwing the left overs in the fridge.

    Is there something unique about SV that makes it more important to not leave meat in the danger zone?

    Thanks

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