QV Observation and Question

[Jim White]

Trying my first QV chuck roast, which I'm likely to take all the way to QVQ, but I just had to stop and ask a question here.

So far, I started with a 2.5 pound nicely marbled chuck roast from the UF meat market. I dry brined a couple of hours and then applied a heavy coat of Flatiron Dark and Smoky Rub. That went onto my Kamado at 225 with a water pan and lots of hickory chunks. Only took an hour to get the meat to 120 internal. It rested maybe an hour and a half, then got bagged and into the SV at 130 for 48 hours.

Here's the meat after smoking. I'm an instant fan of the Flatiron rub. (Yes, I had to sample.)



Here's where it gets strange. At the end of the SV time, the water in the ANOVA 12 L bin was still crystal clear. But when I took the lid off, it smelled unbelievably smoky in there. In fact, the smoke smell lingered in that region for another hour or so while I did other kitchen stuff before I poured the water out. With the water clear, there couldn't have been a significant leak in the bag. I use a Geryon vacuum sealer and I always double seal both ends of the bag whether freezing or going into SV.

So the question is, does this happen whenever you SV after smoking? Should I be double-bagging to keep more of the goodness on the meat? (I haven't opened the bag yet, so I haven't tasted to see if the meat is still smoky. Will report back on that tomorrow when I do the final smoke.)

I know that Meathead's ebook on SV claims that smoke taste diminishes greatly when you SV after smoking, but I don't remember it being mentioned that you could literally smell the smoke come off. (And I'm too lazy to scroll back through it right now.) But many of you here swear by QVQ as delivering the ideals of both systems, so I'm really curious about this phenomenon.

And a further question is, have you noticed this too? Is the SV bath always smoky-smelling after QV?

[Dewesq55]

Smoke particles can permeate the SV bag. When you do the ChefSteps pastrami, the SV bath water gets a little dark. They tell you to expect it.

[Jim White]

Thanks.

[DogFaced PonySoldier]

Yes, every time I smoke and then SV, I get a lot of smoke smell in the kitchen. But it's not leaking bags, even happens when I double bag AND double seal.

[MBMorgan]

I often smell volatiles that seem to find their way from the bag into the SV bath. It never seems traceable to a leak nor seems to affect the cook … but I’ve taken to double-bagging most of the time anyway.

[Jim White]

Yes, I already do the double-sealing routinely for both the freezer and SV. But it looks like the consensus is that a second bag isn't worth it as the volatiles come through anyway.

[MBMorgan]

Jim White - You’re absolutely correct about the futility of keeping smoke molecules out of the SV water. I just double-bag out of an over abundance of paranoia about keeping SV water out of the innermost bag.

[STEbbq]

I would double bag but the waste bothers me no end. I did not need to do anything extra for my 72 hour cook last week. Maybe I will look at those environmentally friendly anova bags again.

[rickgregory]

Yeah aromatic molecules are tiny and will escape. Not a leak, not a thing to worry about really.

[Polarbear777]

I recommend 132-135 for long sessions. 131 is highest temp bacteria can survive and above 135 you start to lose texture advantage (but if going for a schedule advantage then higher is ok).

yes. Smoke particles permeate even a double bag and are nothing to worry about.

[STEbbq]

^^^^ yup

[Jim White]

Yeah I should have known that but was reading elsewhere and forgot those two degrees. Will go 132 in future.

[Polarbear777]

"Many websites recommend sous vide in the 120 to 130°F range and many people believe that over 120°F bacteria can’t grow. Not so, says ML Tortorello, PhD, Chief of the Food Technology branch in the Division of Food Processing Science & Technology at FDA, Editor of Food Microbiology, a peer reviewed journal, and co-editor of the Encyclopedia of Food Microbiology 2nd Edition. "It is true that most foodborne pathogens such as Salmonella, Listeria, and pathogenic strains of E. coli, cannot grow at 120°F, but that is an easy temp for thermophilic bacteria [bacteria that like warm temps]. Some examples of foodborne pathogens that can grow at higher temps are Clostridium perfringens and Bacillus cereus which has a maximum growth temp of 131°F.” ”

https://amazingribs.com/bbq-technique-and-science/sous-vide-que/

[Potkettleblack]

Some of the smoke particles are so small, they can penetrate the bag without compromising the bag. Straight through the bag, like Ant-Man going down to the Quantum Realm. Consider, if they are small enough to penetrate the bag, what else might they penetrate? The meat, obviously, but your skin? Yep, some can go straight through you like a quasar, you wouldn't even notice it.

Perfectly normal, no reduction in the quality of the product.

[CaptainMike]

I was intuitively thinking the same thing and was about to dive into the Google rabbit hole to dig around a little. Thank you for pulling me back from the abyss!!