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Berkshire Butt

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    #31
    I'm not sure if mountainsmoker will approve, but I've brined Turkeys for many years, using Alton Brown's Good Eats recipe.
    Always turns out wonderful, delicious, I won't do turkey by any other method

    This is how it works:

    One of the things I hated growing up at Thanksgiving was overcooked turkey. It is dry, flavorless and feels like eating cardboard. I would often forgo turkey because of how dry it was. Brining has been my preference for the past three years because it is far healthier than deep fat frying and it cuts the cooking time in half. Most importantly is creates a juicy delicious Thanksgiving turkey.

    Comment


    • mountainsmoker
      mountainsmoker commented
      Editing a comment
      As long as it is a fresh turkey and not a pre-brined frozen grocery store turkey your fine with me.

    • texastweeter
      texastweeter commented
      Editing a comment
      AB also dry brines his steaks.

    #32
    From: cooking for engineers:

    Hope the science crowd agrees!

    Comment


    • Meathead
      Meathead commented
      Editing a comment
      That article was written "ChuPublished on November 01, 2004 at 06:27 PM". It is out of date. Science progresses.

    • Ricorocks
      Ricorocks commented
      Editing a comment
      Meathead fair enough! Pls site updated refutation

    #33
    FWIW, a friend of mine raised berkshires. The cuts he gave me were leaner than store bought, and if cooked the way we usually do for pulling, did not turn out as good as I’d expected. Perhaps cook to a lower temp and slice or chop.
    Or it could be something in his berkshires.
    Good luck. Hope you let us know what you do and how it turned out.

    Comment


    • Potkettleblack
      Potkettleblack commented
      Editing a comment
      Breed is only part of the equation. Care and feed matter as well. Might be something in his process.

      It's also an agricultural product, so there is variation from hog to hog, farm to farm.

    • mountainsmoker
      mountainsmoker commented
      Editing a comment
      l agree with Potkettleblack. If it is not raised properly you might as well buy commodity pork. It will be tough tasteless and not worth the excessive price. Real Berkshire should be well marbled with lots of streaks of fat. Maybe like a ribeye.

    #34
    I did berkshire once as well. I bought it from a butcher that all the competition teams buy from in Milwaukee, Wi, kettle range meat company. They were cut into steaks, dry brinned, and smoked. They were expensive, very dry, and tough. I may have over cooked them. I will never do them again.

    Comment


    • Potkettleblack
      Potkettleblack commented
      Editing a comment
      Pork sirloin is naturally very lean, and will be very dry at 140.

    • lostclusters
      lostclusters commented
      Editing a comment
      They were cut from the butt or shoulder.

    • texastweeter
      texastweeter commented
      Editing a comment
      for steaks from shoulder, high fast heat seems to be the ticket for me. Bacon on the outside, porky bliss on the inside. I season exactly like my beef steak, and never ever go above medium; and act, unless I'm serving my mom, it never goes above medium rare.

    #35
    Maybe get a small butt from the supermarket and do a side by side with your next Berkshire butt. That way you could determine if it’s the method or the meat.

    Comment


      #36
      If anyone was upset with me let me reassure you that I do not intend to hurt any one's feelings. Well that is why we have experience and opinions every one has one. May every ones smokes always turn out great, mine don't.

      Comment


      • texastweeter
        texastweeter commented
        Editing a comment
        BBQ is like discussions on sex, politics, and or religion, things can get heated very quickly.

      #37
      Ricorocks - So in re-reading this I'd do this.. look at the butt. Is it well marbled, with reasonable amounts of fat well distributed? or is it pretty lean? If lean, it's not going to make good pulled pork. The reason for a fairly long smoke to ~200F is let the fat render and everything to become tender. If there's not enough fat, the lean meat will dry out. If it's ok but on the lean side I'd smoke to 150, then wrap to 185-190 and then unwrap to firm up the bark.

      Dry brining vs not - I've done both. The difference is relatively slight but noticeable and you're not going to make or ruin a cook based on that alone.

      Obviously, if a recipe calls for 4 hours dry brining don't go for 48. ALWAYS do a recipe from a trusted source as written first, then vary based on the results and your taste.

      As for commodity pork etc... don't buy it. I don't know about what's around where others here live but I get pork and other meat in the supermarket that isn't heritage, artisan, etc etc but that ALSO isn't injected or pre-brined. If you buy crappy, commodity meat you're wasting your time, frankly.

      Comment


      • mountainsmoker
        mountainsmoker commented
        Editing a comment
        Ahumadora I wish it was only 1 or 2. But there have bene numerous posts lately on poor Berkshire pork.

      • Red Man
        Red Man commented
        Editing a comment
        The Berkshire pork I’ve gotten has been fantastic!

      • Potkettleblack
        Potkettleblack commented
        Editing a comment
        A lot of comp teams prefer Duroc to Berk/Kurobuta...

      #38
      - it might be different in Iowa/NC but in Seattle I can walk into any supermarket and get regionally raised pork that's not Hormel, etc. Smithfield is good but I've read too much about how they run things to support them (I dislike caging animals with only a few square feet of space all their lives. Yes, I'm going to eat them. That doesn't mean I have to support that.). By commodity I mean the huge packers who inject etc. I don't necessarily mean everyone except specialty farmers. See https://www.purecountrypork.com/animal_care.html for the stuff I can get here in supermarkets.

      Again, fat marbling is going to matter more than breed. If you buy lean Berkshire, guess what?

      Rico - if you can't tell live I doubt we'd be able to tell from photos whether it's well marbled. If you're on the fence and not sure and don't want to waste it, I'd leave it in the freezer and use it in a braise or something when the weather cools down a bit. Alternatively, just go for it, wrapping at 150 and leaving off the salt beforehand (salting at or close to cook time) so you can see the difference yourself.

      End of the day, there's nothing better than experience.
      Last edited by rickgregory; June 23, 2019, 11:03 PM.

      Comment


      • parkerj2
        parkerj2 commented
        Editing a comment
        also here in NC smithfield has a terrible reputation of treating the area around their farms and plants as their personal trash heaps. I won't support them for the reasons you mentioned as well as their blatant disregard for everyone elese.

      • Ricorocks
        Ricorocks commented
        Editing a comment
        rickgregory I strongly agree with you on your position re Factory Farms! Well marbled vs lean is subjective, I was looking for reference, I've only seen 2 berkies. I think I can do this now by comparing pic's from online sellers, to what I have, ballpark it

      #39
      Sometimes, one gets an ornery piece of meat. The method I describe in this article has never failed me nor has a reader ever reported a failure. https://amazingribs.com/tested-recip...ed-pork-recipe

      Comment


      • AverageJoe
        AverageJoe commented
        Editing a comment
        I whole heartedly agree. I have gotten an ornery shoulder and brisket.

      #40
      A folowup on Steve Raichlen: He is a brilliant cook, a truly creative recipe developer, and he knows a TON about BBQ and grilling. But science has never been his forte. He once wrote a whole book on beer can chicken we I thoroughly and definitively debunked here https://amazingribs.com/beer-can-chicken

      The concept behind dry brining is relatively new and has slowly been catching on. My guess he had not heard of it when that book was written. If has heard of it by now, my guess is that he approves.

      Comment


      • Ahumadora
        Ahumadora commented
        Editing a comment
        Theres a reason AR is the #1 bbq website in the world and it is not just because of @meatheads stunning looks and chizeled bbq body..

      • Ricorocks
        Ricorocks commented
        Editing a comment
        I also believe you are brillant & very knowledgeable pitmaster extraordinaire! Like wise you com padres! You praise Raichlen, then debunk him, seems territorial reply.

        All, Raichlen, Meathead, etc desire delicious results! Plus desire to help newbies, achieve delicious results. This thread has devolved into, no way my method is better, resulting in no learning. And defending methodology, to prove superiority. I bought your your book, continued 45 character remained

      • texastweeter
        texastweeter commented
        Editing a comment
        Alton Brown has been dry brineing his steaks since the 90's. Another science guy agrees. Dry bribing also brings some of the proteins to the surface of the steak, aiding in the mallard reaction.

      #41
      Continued comment to Mr Meathead. Have you watched, food channels, Beat Bobby Flay? Challengers try to prepare/make a better version,same dish as Mr. Flay's, judged by piers? Sometimes Bobby wins & sometimes he loses. He's always gracious & flattering to the winner. I may be wrong, & I respect adamant opinion, (never thought, I'd say), sorry Alton/Meathead, but another way, taste is better.

      I've followed your scientific approach on several recipes, outstanding/best ever! KEEPERS

      Despite rigorous following of instructions, failures occur? Or does not meat expectations! Then demean others?

      I'll consider myself banned for life, by this forum.. Truly enjoying your Mr Meathead book

      Comment


      • grantgallagher
        grantgallagher commented
        Editing a comment
        Ricorocks im sorry if any of my replies contributed to that feeling, it was not my intent. We are all prone to defending what we practice and love a little too zealously sometimes. Sometimes bad cooks just happen through no fault of your own. Thats why i suggested repeating the cook the exact same way. Maybe it works this time or maybe not. Either way, report it here and we all learn something.

      • texastweeter
        texastweeter commented
        Editing a comment
        hope you stay buddy. Sometimes the kitchen (or pit in this case) can get hot.

      #42
      Found an answer, to a question asked here & not answered. Seems pre brined, or brine injected, for sale, to consumers. Is called, Plumped, & the author Ms Pope. Does not recommend 'dry brine' for plumped food.

      Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumping

      https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist....omplete-guide/
      Last edited by Ricorocks; June 24, 2019, 07:45 AM.

      Comment


      • Ricorocks
        Ricorocks commented
        Editing a comment
        A more definitive explanation. It also amt of time, in the brine, determines, how deep, penetrated. Flavors tag along as part of the solute, then proteins are de-natured (un wind, then cell wall becomes less permeable.
        Read & do you agree with:

      • HouseHomey
        HouseHomey commented
        Editing a comment
        The article in #42 is at best Meh... she's an economist/ government affairs educated writing about food nutrion and health. There were a handful of things im not so sure about. I don't have her issues with handling food either. Deep penetration?? Cook times? Pasture birds don't need to be brined. 30% on solution?? Her intentions were good though.

      • Potkettleblack
        Potkettleblack commented
        Editing a comment
        I already pointed this out... if it's already 11% saline solution, I don't see the value in adding extra brine.

      #43
      It’s not the brines fault your cook sucked.

      Maybe it was just a bad cook. There is not a definitive answer to everything.

      No one will ban you, for what? You asked questions. That’s what we do.

      Very often threads are morphed into other topics and threads.

      I too brine turkeys, chicken, pork, beef etc... I don’t buy that prebined, preplumped stuff and injected argument either.

      Brine baby brine!

      A respected chef one told me "If you are bland, you are not in demand!"

      Comment


      • Ricorocks
        Ricorocks commented
        Editing a comment
        Your entitled to your opinion, "I don’t buy that prebined, preplumped stuff and injected argument either." however that is contrary to the three links, posted, in post #42

      • HouseHomey
        HouseHomey commented
        Editing a comment
        Ricorocks "I don’t buy" meaning I Brine anyway.

      #44
      Stumbled onto (accident) excess brining time seems, is ok or stated 1 - 3 days.

      You don’t need a brick oven for this perfect roast chicken from the legendary chef Judy Rodgers — but you do need a hot one, and a day or so to dry-brine the bird before using it If you don't have the time to dry-brine, don't You'll still end up with one of the best roast chickens you've ever had

      Comment


      • Potkettleblack
        Potkettleblack commented
        Editing a comment
        It depends on the ratio of salt to meat, the permeability of the meat/fat to salt, and so on. I've overbrined things with a measured brine that I left going too long. It wasn't tough. It was toxically salty.

        Eq Brining eliminates that issue.

      • Ricorocks
        Ricorocks commented
        Editing a comment
        PKB Thanks I'm so anal, I follow directions, precisely like my life depended on it! So if recipe instructions are wrong, move on. FYI thanks for the post Grilla & something off with "Swing" turns out, 1.5 hrs observing max swing 5F. Set point 225 swing was 220 to 225. Mark from Grilla, will send email how to fine tune. Really nice guy, Mark. Also he has concerns, about new from Amazon opened for the cook BBQrs Delight Oak/Cherry I mixed 10#s each, 20# to hopper. He thinks bad pellets

      #45
      Okay experts, poke some holes in this, or how wrong tis:

      Click image for larger version  Name:	2019-06-24_16-28-36.png Views:	1 Size:	67.7 KB ID:	700439
      I've always liked this company! The name refers to 'Three Musketeers' if memory serves correct.

      I did not include here my question, which was two part "recipe" & "int. temps!"

      Comment


      • Backroadmeats
        Backroadmeats commented
        Editing a comment
        First thing you need to understand is you are buying labeled meat.. if I cut it I can label it anything I want!!! then u need to understand how it is fed... Did u feed it or know the guy that fed it??? I could sell you bershire pork from a 800 pound boar and not lie.. KNOW YOUR SOURCE!!

      • Ricorocks
        Ricorocks commented
        Editing a comment
        Backroadmeats - What I do know are the people who own the farm, they also supply, some of the best BBQ joints in Lockhart Texas & this:


      • grantgallagher
        grantgallagher commented
        Editing a comment
        Ive always like D'Artagnan. Bought some really nice stuff from them. Maybe the answer here is to treat pork shoulder more like brisket and rather than shoot for a specific temp look more for probe tender? I cant say ive ever cooked a butt and thought about it that way because they tend to be pretty forgiving so i usually just end up pulling when its "close enough". At the end of the day, if its ready at 160 and it pulls nicely and is juicy...whos complaining?

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