I'm not sure if mountainsmoker will approve, but I've brined Turkeys for many years, using Alton Brown's Good Eats recipe.
Always turns out wonderful, delicious, I won't do turkey by any other method
One of the things I hated growing up at Thanksgiving was overcooked turkey. It is dry, flavorless and feels like eating cardboard. I would often forgo turkey because of how dry it was. Brining has been my preference for the past three years because it is far healthier than deep fat frying and it cuts the cooking time in half. Most importantly is creates a juicy delicious Thanksgiving turkey.
We have two weber kettle grills (one LARGE and one small/average), the SnS and the Weber Smokey Mountain 18" smoker. We use both natural lump charcoal and KNB for smoking and measure our temps with a Maverick 733, thermopen and MK4. Favorite beer depends on what is cooking (alt answer is yes).
FWIW, a friend of mine raised berkshires. The cuts he gave me were leaner than store bought, and if cooked the way we usually do for pulling, did not turn out as good as I’d expected. Perhaps cook to a lower temp and slice or chop.
Or it could be something in his berkshires.
Good luck. Hope you let us know what you do and how it turned out.
l agree with Potkettleblack. If it is not raised properly you might as well buy commodity pork. It will be tough tasteless and not worth the excessive price. Real Berkshire should be well marbled with lots of streaks of fat. Maybe like a ribeye.
I did berkshire once as well. I bought it from a butcher that all the competition teams buy from in Milwaukee, Wi, kettle range meat company. They were cut into steaks, dry brinned, and smoked. They were expensive, very dry, and tough. I may have over cooked them. I will never do them again.
for steaks from shoulder, high fast heat seems to be the ticket for me. Bacon on the outside, porky bliss on the inside. I season exactly like my beef steak, and never ever go above medium; and act, unless I'm serving my mom, it never goes above medium rare.
Maybe get a small butt from the supermarket and do a side by side with your next Berkshire butt. That way you could determine if it’s the method or the meat.
If anyone was upset with me let me reassure you that I do not intend to hurt any one's feelings. Well that is why we have experience and opinions every one has one. May every ones smokes always turn out great, mine don't.
Ricorocks - So in re-reading this I'd do this.. look at the butt. Is it well marbled, with reasonable amounts of fat well distributed? or is it pretty lean? If lean, it's not going to make good pulled pork. The reason for a fairly long smoke to ~200F is let the fat render and everything to become tender. If there's not enough fat, the lean meat will dry out. If it's ok but on the lean side I'd smoke to 150, then wrap to 185-190 and then unwrap to firm up the bark.
Dry brining vs not - I've done both. The difference is relatively slight but noticeable and you're not going to make or ruin a cook based on that alone.
Obviously, if a recipe calls for 4 hours dry brining don't go for 48. ALWAYS do a recipe from a trusted source as written first, then vary based on the results and your taste.
As for commodity pork etc... don't buy it. I don't know about what's around where others here live but I get pork and other meat in the supermarket that isn't heritage, artisan, etc etc but that ALSO isn't injected or pre-brined. If you buy crappy, commodity meat you're wasting your time, frankly.
- it might be different in Iowa/NC but in Seattle I can walk into any supermarket and get regionally raised pork that's not Hormel, etc. Smithfield is good but I've read too much about how they run things to support them (I dislike caging animals with only a few square feet of space all their lives. Yes, I'm going to eat them. That doesn't mean I have to support that.). By commodity I mean the huge packers who inject etc. I don't necessarily mean everyone except specialty farmers. See https://www.purecountrypork.com/animal_care.html for the stuff I can get here in supermarkets.
Again, fat marbling is going to matter more than breed. If you buy lean Berkshire, guess what?
Rico - if you can't tell live I doubt we'd be able to tell from photos whether it's well marbled. If you're on the fence and not sure and don't want to waste it, I'd leave it in the freezer and use it in a braise or something when the weather cools down a bit. Alternatively, just go for it, wrapping at 150 and leaving off the salt beforehand (salting at or close to cook time) so you can see the difference yourself.
End of the day, there's nothing better than experience.
Last edited by rickgregory; June 23, 2019, 11:03 PM.
also here in NC smithfield has a terrible reputation of treating the area around their farms and plants as their personal trash heaps. I won't support them for the reasons you mentioned as well as their blatant disregard for everyone elese.
rickgregory I strongly agree with you on your position re Factory Farms! Well marbled vs lean is subjective, I was looking for reference, I've only seen 2 berkies. I think I can do this now by comparing pic's from online sellers, to what I have, ballpark it
A folowup on Steve Raichlen: He is a brilliant cook, a truly creative recipe developer, and he knows a TON about BBQ and grilling. But science has never been his forte. He once wrote a whole book on beer can chicken we I thoroughly and definitively debunked here https://amazingribs.com/beer-can-chicken
The concept behind dry brining is relatively new and has slowly been catching on. My guess he had not heard of it when that book was written. If has heard of it by now, my guess is that he approves.
I also believe you are brillant & very knowledgeable pitmaster extraordinaire! Like wise you com padres! You praise Raichlen, then debunk him, seems territorial reply.
All, Raichlen, Meathead, etc desire delicious results! Plus desire to help newbies, achieve delicious results. This thread has devolved into, no way my method is better, resulting in no learning. And defending methodology, to prove superiority. I bought your your book, continued 45 character remained
Alton Brown has been dry brineing his steaks since the 90's. Another science guy agrees. Dry bribing also brings some of the proteins to the surface of the steak, aiding in the mallard reaction.
Continued comment to Mr Meathead. Have you watched, food channels, Beat Bobby Flay? Challengers try to prepare/make a better version,same dish as Mr. Flay's, judged by piers? Sometimes Bobby wins & sometimes he loses. He's always gracious & flattering to the winner. I may be wrong, & I respect adamant opinion, (never thought, I'd say), sorry Alton/Meathead, but another way, taste is better.
I've followed your scientific approach on several recipes, outstanding/best ever! KEEPERS
Despite rigorous following of instructions, failures occur? Or does not meat expectations! Then demean others?
I'll consider myself banned for life, by this forum.. Truly enjoying your Mr Meathead book
Ricorocks im sorry if any of my replies contributed to that feeling, it was not my intent. We are all prone to defending what we practice and love a little too zealously sometimes. Sometimes bad cooks just happen through no fault of your own. Thats why i suggested repeating the cook the exact same way. Maybe it works this time or maybe not. Either way, report it here and we all learn something.
Found an answer, to a question asked here & not answered. Seems pre brined, or brine injected, for sale, to consumers. Is called, Plumped, & the author Ms Pope. Does not recommend 'dry brine' for plumped food.
A more definitive explanation. It also amt of time, in the brine, determines, how deep, penetrated. Flavors tag along as part of the solute, then proteins are de-natured (un wind, then cell wall becomes less permeable.
Read & do you agree with:
The article in #42 is at best Meh... she's an economist/ government affairs educated writing about food nutrion and health. There were a handful of things im not so sure about. I don't have her issues with handling food either. Deep penetration?? Cook times? Pasture birds don't need to be brined. 30% on solution?? Her intentions were good though.
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Your entitled to your opinion, "I don’t buy that prebined, preplumped stuff and injected argument either." however that is contrary to the three links, posted, in post #42
You don’t need a brick oven for this perfect roast chicken from the legendary chef Judy Rodgers — but you do need a hot one, and a day or so to dry-brine the bird before using it If you don't have the time to dry-brine, don't You'll still end up with one of the best roast chickens you've ever had
It depends on the ratio of salt to meat, the permeability of the meat/fat to salt, and so on. I've overbrined things with a measured brine that I left going too long. It wasn't tough. It was toxically salty.
PKB Thanks I'm so anal, I follow directions, precisely like my life depended on it! So if recipe instructions are wrong, move on. FYI thanks for the post Grilla & something off with "Swing" turns out, 1.5 hrs observing max swing 5F. Set point 225 swing was 220 to 225. Mark from Grilla, will send email how to fine tune. Really nice guy, Mark. Also he has concerns, about new from Amazon opened for the cook BBQrs Delight Oak/Cherry I mixed 10#s each, 20# to hopper. He thinks bad pellets
First thing you need to understand is you are buying labeled meat.. if I cut it I can label it anything I want!!! then u need to understand how it is fed... Did u feed it or know the guy that fed it??? I could sell you bershire pork from a 800 pound boar and not lie.. KNOW YOUR SOURCE!!
Ive always like D'Artagnan. Bought some really nice stuff from them. Maybe the answer here is to treat pork shoulder more like brisket and rather than shoot for a specific temp look more for probe tender? I cant say ive ever cooked a butt and thought about it that way because they tend to be pretty forgiving so i usually just end up pulling when its "close enough". At the end of the day, if its ready at 160 and it pulls nicely and is juicy...whos complaining?
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