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How to make sourdough bread...

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  • Thunder77
    commented on 's reply
    I'm with you on hand mixing. I have heard that it produces a more open crumb, but I will put my stand-mixer bread up against hand-mixed any day. Ken Forkish says he bakes some of his bread straight from the fridge.

  • Thunder77
    commented on 's reply
    If fermentation takes place at different temperatures, it develops different profiles also. Cooler fermentation temps (fridge) lead to more acetic acid production, warmer temps lead to more lactic acid production. The bacteria culture as well as the yeast make up the flavor profile.

  • Pequod
    replied
    Willy -- I suspect you're right from the flavor development standpoint. Dough will continue to rise (inflate from CO2 production) as long as there is sugar left in the flour to feed the yeastie beasties. It will deflate once that food is gone. You want to bake before that happens, but not too much before, so we do the poke test.

    A similar question has been discussed at The Fresh Loaf forum. How do you know when bulk fermentation is done? Further, there are different philosophies on this. Forkish says when the dough has tripled. Trevor J. Wilson says he prefers to bias toward cutting bulk fermentation short with only a 30% rise. Others say 50%. Furthermore, pizza dough is usually divided and shaped shortly after mixing (or within 24 hours if a 72 hour dough), so most of the flavor is developed after bulk (if any at all). So...who is right?

    Probably all of them, depending on what result you are after. Trevor J. Wilson's book Open Crumb Mastery is all about how to achieve the desired crumb through handling throughout the entire process (he significantly downplays hydration, which is interesting because that's what most people fixate on). Bulk ferment is for:
    1. Flavor development -- flavor will develop as long as there is sugar for the yeast to feed on
    2. Gluten development -- per Trevor J., gluten will develop with time even if you don't handle the dough. Hence all of the no-knead recipes out there.
    3. Structure development -- this is probably the biggest reason for bulk ferment. Stretch and folds (or whatever technique you use) are all about building structure so that the dough can hold shape during proofing and, especially, the final bake.
    It is possible that Reinhart is wrong...or at least incomplete. Bulk ferment *is* for flavor development, but more importantly it is for structure development.
    Last edited by Pequod; March 6th, 2019, 07:34 AM.

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  • Willy
    commented on 's reply
    Pequod I'm really NOT trying to be contrarian here but I must note that, unlike a collapsed starter (maybe due to lack of gluten?), my doughs (probably yours too) are still continuing to rise well through the second rise, quite healthily. I take that to mean their food sources are not exhausted. I still can't find a rational reason to distinguish "flavor production" between primary and secondary fermentation.

  • Thunder77
    commented on 's reply
    Thank goodness it was in a Dutch oven, or l would have been setting off the smoke alarm!🤪

  • scottranda
    commented on 's reply
    I really love a seeded loaf. I’ve just never done it myself! I made a walnut loaf today which was delicious. King Arthur back of bag recipe for that one!

  • RonB
    replied
    I have added various seeds, (flax, pumpkin, sunflower, etc.), to bread in the past, but none of them were hard. However, I always soaked the seeds so that they would not affect hydration. I did drain well for the same reason.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pequod
    commented on 's reply
    My guess is it is very similar to the cycle your starter goes through after feeding — an initial rapid rise due to lots of food and a slightly fruity, yeasty smell. A few hours later it’s deflating, producing acid, and a faint smell of acetone. It’s not so much the formality of bulk vs final as that the initial punch is where the action and flavor is.

  • Willy
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks. I love BBA. His bagels are the best. My thought, though, is that the same processes continue through the entire "life of raw dough". Yeast keeps doing its thing making by-products and bacteria (especially if sourdough) their by-product producing thing. I can't grasp that either "knows" when the first rise is done and thus quit making flavor.

  • Pequod
    commented on 's reply
    Potkettleblack -- LOL!

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