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Sour Dough Starter Comments and Thoughts

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    Sour Dough Starter Comments and Thoughts

    Here’s a quick update on what I (think, maybe, possibly or not) I’m learning about my SD starters. First, a bit of history. My first starter (named Vinnie) really, really, really did a good job—tangy like San Fran, very active. The first loaf I baked with him was SO good. Had it not been that spectacular regarding its tang, I might not have started so fully and obsessively down the SD trail. Alas, the tang faded as Vinnie aged (a matter of just a few weeks). I tried different storage temps to no avail. I played around with hydration ratios. I kept creating new starters—all named Vinnie. Even worse, none of the subsequent starters I made recreated the original tang, but all of them except the original eventually (again, after a couple of weeks or so) developed an acetone smell. The acetone didn’t transfer to the bread, but it made me very unhappy and I kept trashing starters. Ol’ Vinnie is on his tenth or twelfth generation now. Throughout it all, my wild yeasts kept kicking butt. I can reliably pass the float test in four days; once it floated in just TWO days.

    Finally, I stumbled onto the "pineapple method" (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/108...olution-part-1), which relies on establishing a very low pH starter environment from the git-go (use pineapple juice in place of water for the first two days) to exclude some strains of undesirable bacteria and encourage the 'good" LABs. It is recommended by no less than Peter Reinhart and Debra Wink. I even bought some pH paper to monitor starter pH and have mostly kept it in the 3.5-4.0 range by adding a dash of citric acid each time I feed it. If I don’t add the acid, the pH creeps up, so my LABs are not yet, and may never be, strong enough to "control" pH by themselves. The starter isn’t as acidic as I would like, but it does have some nice tang. Excepting a whiff or two of acetone when the pH crept up a bit, the starter has a nice smell now. It is only about three weeks old, so things still might change.

    I THINK I believe the following now and I’d love to get some discussion going on this topic.
    1. The microbes in the air are seasonal and no doubt some are regional. My first batch had some nice LABs that later batches couldn’t ‘find”. The microbes that produce the acetone smell also may be seasonal/regional. I have read other complaints about acetone smells. This seasonality, if it is real, may well affect new starters more than established ones.
    2. Even more than temperature, the pH of the starter is crucial to a healthy microbe collection. I apparently live in a place where a good, low pH is not an easy thing to achieve with my local microbes. I also recognize that even flour could contain microbes that help or hinder the starter. The flour is a part of one’s "local environment". EDIT UPDATE (5/6/17) I do not mean to say that temperature is not important. It is widely agreed that certain LABs (acetic vs. lactic acid producing types) can be favored by varying temperature one way or the other. I am saying that getting a good community of LABs is helped by establishing a low pH early on. This may not be an issue for many folks, but it seems to be a biggie for me.
    3. The fridge is a great place to store a starter so you don’t have to feed it more than weekly, but the fridge is too cold to allow the microbes to be very active, so they aren’t really doing much when they’re that cold. I suspect the influence on acid production (acetic vs lactic) when in the fridge is negligible.
    I will be going on vacation in a while—to 8,100 feet in elevation. I plan on starting a new starter there (different microbes!!) and doing some high-altitude bread baking—for the knowledge and the bread! I’ll pass on anything of interest.

    Anyway, I think I am somewhat unusual in having so much difficulty getting a good starter, but I’d love to get some comments, thoughts, others experiences, and a good idea exchange going from/with all youse bakers on AR. Meantime, I’ve got my first batch of SD bagels to go mess with—the basic recipe is Reinhart’s BBA and it is GREAT.

    EDIT UPDATE: Today May 6, 2017) my new, carefully nurtured starter, reeks of acetone. It smells like someone dumped a bottle of finger nail polish in the container. Full disclosure: I forgot to feed it yesterday. And, fwiw, it lives in a wine cooler at about 56°F. I did split him off into a small batch that lives in the fridge a couple of weeks ago. That starter smells fine.
    Last edited by Willy; May 6, 2017, 03:52 PM.

    #2
    Good luck Willy. I had the opposite problem when I tried sourdough. I don't like the tang, but could never get rid of it. You have just given me a hint though - my water's ph is about 5.5...

    Comment


    • Willy
      Willy commented
      Editing a comment
      I actually use bottled "drinking" water--I fool myself and say the microbes like the minerals (actually it's to avoid any possible Cl). Just checked the pH and it's around 7+. Our tap water runs around 8.

      Maybe we could exchange starters--lol.

    • Willy
      Willy commented
      Editing a comment
      If you don't like the tang, maybe just go with commercial yeast?

    • RonB
      RonB commented
      Editing a comment
      I haven't done any SD in a good while. However, there is a pizza place in town that makes great pizza - with a sourdough crust that has no tang, so I know it can be done...

    #3
    You are right that the biome is regional and seasonal. If you have any fruit trees nearby, they can be a great source of wild ferments. Also, have you considered adding whey from a yogurt? It's got LAB that are raring to go. I've used whey as a starter for vegetable ferments with good success.

    Comment


    • Willy
      Willy commented
      Editing a comment
      Are you familiar with Sandor Katz?

    • kmhfive
      kmhfive commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes. Read one of his books. I haven't done a lot, yet though.

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