Welcome!


This is a membership forum. Guests can view 5 pages for free. To participate, please join.

[ Pitmaster Club Information | Join Now | Login | Contact Us ]

Only 4 free page views remaining.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Pan Cubano ????

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Pan Cubano ????

    Alrighty. I'm going to make a batch of pan cubano or three for some Cuban sandwiches. I've never worked with lard and all I only know about the stuff in the tub at the grocery.

    Are there other options? Should I be ordering a better quality lard online.

    Any clue as to what I would lose if using butter instead?

    Breadhead , Anybody?

    Thanks

    #2
    I don't use lard, but I did read somewhere that the stuff from the local grocery may have more "flavor" than you want. The article suggested using "leaf lard". I haven't used either, so I can't confirm. I think leaf lard is available on Amazon...
    Found it:

    Comment


      #3
      You really don't want to use the lard you can find at the supermarket. Best lard you can get is what you can make yourself by rendering good pork fat. But it takes time and probably isn't worth it for Cuban sandwiches. You can certainly substitute Crisco the same as you would for pie crusts but butter would probably work as well. What's the amount used in the recipe in proportion to flour?

      Comment


        #4
        4c flour
        3 tbsp lard

        There's a big delta in the PUFA lard to butter so I can see why that my be the reason a substitute is not recommend.

        Whats the downside in the Armor? Forgoing the obvious that its surly mega processed.
        Last edited by Jon Solberg; April 15, 2016, 08:21 AM.

        Comment


        • Breadhead
          Breadhead commented
          Editing a comment
          Hmmm... Isn't Beef Love lard?

          I would be tempted to use beef love as my fat content.😆

        • Dewesq55
          Dewesq55 commented
          Editing a comment
          Beef love is suet, not lard. suet has a beefy taste, whereas good lard does not have a "porky" taste.

          DEW

        #5
        Jon,

        You really don't have to worry too much about what you use with that small amount of shortening. The main reason I don't use that processed lard is that it tends to leave an unpleasant coating in your mouth. But with 3 T to 4 C flour, no big deal. You really start to notice it in high ratios of fat to flour like pie crust. If you haven't made these before and it's important I'd do a batch and see how you like them. Just remember that everyone's probably going to be paying more attention to all the stuff inside the sandwich!

        Comment


          #6
          Jon Solberg ...

          I agree with Tim Clark. The percentage of fat to flour content is so minimal you can use any fat that you have on hand.

          However... I once did some reading on Cuban buns and they did highly recommend using lard. If I'm going to try a new recipe my basic approach is to follow it exactly as written and then riff on it later.

          Good luck on making your Cuban buns. Take pictures for us.👍

          Comment


            #7
            I definitely agree about not changing a recipe or formula the first time you try it. Here's a thought. Why not get a nice fatty pork shoulder, cut off a couple of big pieces of good fat and render it. You'll get a lot more than the 3 T you need and you'll definitely get a lot better flavor than store bought lard. Not quite as good as that fat from the kidneys but close enough. Then you just have to figure out what to do with the pork shoulder.

            Comment


              #8
              Well actually am at the maker to find a nice fat cap shoulder if they have it. For just what you mentioned. What to do with the but us easy. Cuban sandwiches : )

              Edit

              All the butts were trimmed. One pound of pork fat in hand! Cost almost as much as butt : 0
              Attached Files
              Last edited by Jon Solberg; April 15, 2016, 03:00 PM.

              Comment


                #9
                Game on. Watch this space.
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • Tim Clark
                  Tim Clark commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Shazaam!!

                • Breadhead
                  Breadhead commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Nice idea Jon... I can't wait to see your Cuban buns.
                  Last edited by Breadhead; April 15, 2016, 10:57 PM.

                • Jon Solberg
                  Jon Solberg commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Tims idea. He sent it out to the universe and I picked up the vib.
                  Last edited by Jon Solberg; April 15, 2016, 06:51 PM.

                #10
                Jon Solberg ... You got me thinking on this topic so I did some research for you.

                Why lard instead of other fats?
                Crusts and biscuits made with lard are flakier because they lack structure. Lard and shortening work by coating the flour particles and gluten strands in your doughs (literally “shortening” the strands, which is where the term comes from), thus preventing them from forming a strong bond. The stronger the bond, the tougher the crust and vice versa. Lard also has a higher melting point than butter, melting between 109 and 118° F while butter melts somewhere between 90 and 95° F. A slower render means more air and steam-release, which means more leavening and flakiness. The fat crystals in lard are also larger than those in butter, which means there is more empty space left behind when the fat renders out -- more space also means more layers and flakes.

                To keep your formula/recipe accurate use slightly less lard than the butter the recipe calls for. Butter has 15% water in it, lard has no water. Then add about 10 grams of water to your recipe.

                Comment


                  #11
                  Good stuff there BH. Thank you. I got a pretty full day today so I got the dough working in the machine. Getting the gasser set for the bake. Multi tasking in between. Breadhead.
                  Last edited by Jon Solberg; April 16, 2016, 11:24 AM.

                  Comment


                    #12
                    BH makes some good observations but I wouldn't overthink this too much. Like we were all saying before just do the formula the way it's written. Your rendered lard will work fine. As far as why the recipe calls for lard, I would imagine it's because that's what was around when whoever came up with them made them for the first time. Who knows? In any case it would make a lot of difference if you were doing biscuits. With this kind of enriched bread, no so much.

                    Comment


                      #13
                      Lard seems to be prevalent in Cuban bread. They say it adds a salami like smell that adds to the Cuban sandwich experience. Since I'm chasing a good Cuban I may as well go with it : )

                      Can't that you guys enough for the knowledge. Mush appreciated.
                      Last edited by Jon Solberg; April 16, 2016, 12:24 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Tim Clark
                        Tim Clark commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Makes a lot of sense. I'll bet the bread evolved right next to the pork cooking. In any case, with really good rendered pork fat you're gonna get as close as you can to the original.

                      #14
                      Won't be long now. Winds poking me in the eye a bit.
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                      • Jon Solberg
                        Jon Solberg commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Not bad but need some work. I appreciate your help with this.

                      • Breadhead
                        Breadhead commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I would try your next batch by hand. A bread machine is handy but you will learn more doing your bread by hand. It's easy too.

                      • Jon Solberg
                        Jon Solberg commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I know. This got overworked.

                      #15
                      Originally posted by Breadhead View Post
                      Jon Solberg ... You got me thinking on this topic so I did some research for you.

                      Why lard instead of other fats?
                      Crusts and biscuits made with lard are flakier because they lack structure. Lard and shortening work by coating the flour particles and gluten strands in your doughs (literally “shortening” the strands, which is where the term comes from), thus preventing them from forming a strong bond. The stronger the bond, the tougher the crust and vice versa. Lard also has a higher melting point than butter, melting between 109 and 118° F while butter melts somewhere between 90 and 95° F. A slower render means more air and steam-release, which means more leavening and flakiness. The fat crystals in lard are also larger than those in butter, which means there is more empty space left behind when the fat renders out -- more space also means more layers and flakes.

                      To keep your formula/recipe accurate use slightly less lard than the butter the recipe calls for. Butter has 15% water in it, lard has no water. Then add about 10 grams of water to your recipe.

                      Sorry to disagree BH, but you've got the facts about the interaction between fats and flour backwards. Think about it - if you drop a teaspoon of any kind of solid fat in a bowl of flour what happens? The fat is coated by the flour. Fat is sticky, flour is not, so the flour will always coat the fat - be it a large lump or a tiny particle. Anyway, here's a link that explains it much better than I can, (scroll down to myth #1):

                      http://www.seriouseats.com/2015/03/s...o-go-away.html

                      Comment

                      Announcement

                      Collapse
                      No announcement yet.
                      Working...
                      X
                      false
                      0
                      Guest
                      Guest
                      500
                      ["pitmaster-my-membership","login","join-pitmaster","lostpw","reset-password","special-offers","help","nojs","meat-ups","gifts","authaau-alpha","ebooklogin-start","alpha","start"]
                      false
                      false
                      {"count":0,"link":"/forum/announcements/","debug":""}
                      Yes
                      ["\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads","\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads\/1157845-paid-members-download-your-6-deep-dive-guide-ebooks-for-free-here","\/forum\/the-pitcast","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2019-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2020-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2021-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2022-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/current-2023-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/current-2024-issues","\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads\/1165909-trial-members-download-your-free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-here"]
                      /forum/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads/1165909-trial-members-download-your-free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-here