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My Latest Packer Brisket Discoveries

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    My Latest Packer Brisket Discoveries

    My KBQ friends...
    I have recently discovered and then confirmed that perfect pull (doneness) including very good moistness in my packers is much easier to achieve.
    -
    At the time of this post, I am "batting 1000!"
    My methods to achieve great results used to be somewhat difficult, and it was SO easy to overcook my packers.
    Not anymore!
    What happened was that I took Aaron Franklin's $90 MasterClass and broke away from my standard procedures, and started experimenting again.
    I then formed some logical conclusions from the results of my tests, and proved them out.
    Now, I "nail" doneness on my packers (and beef ribs for that matter) with no real worries, time after time.
    YES, you got it right, I now smoke the ribs until almost there, to where they are still ever so slightly tough, and then put them into a long moist hold period at 148°F to finish cooking them.
    -
    Here are my latest discoveries + my most current brisket procedures:
    I currently...
    1) Smoke the packers whole looking for the stall.
    2) Continue in the smoke until the internal temperature just starts to climb out of the stall.
    This is easy to see with a probe in the thickest part of the flat. (I am using a 6-probe FireBoard)
    I put one in each of 3 packers in its "sweet spot" and one attached to the middle rack in each KBQ.
    3) When a temperature stalled packer starts to climb, I pull, spritz and wrap that packer just as it starts breaking out of the stall, wrapping it tightly in butcher paper at that time.
    Basically, wrapping is done as it starts to rise in temperature after a longish period of no increase or a fair period where its internal temperature has dropped instead of risen.
    So again, once that the internal temperature starts to rise again, it is pulled and wrapped.
    The internal temperature in the "sweet spot" is generally around 160°F to 175°F with each packer being different as each cow is different.
    I basically wrap at this time to conserve some moisture.
    Note that when you pull the probe out to wrap, about 3 to 4 tablespoons of liquid will gush out, so have the packer on your cut butcher paper when you remove the probe.
    4) After it's wrapped, I put that packer back into the KBQ or in an oven as it will not take on any more smoke after being wrapped.
    Continue to cook it until that individual packer "gives it up" and becomes limber.
    This usually occurs around a 180°F to 185°F internal temperature, but each one can be different.
    To check to see if it is done, I pick each one up with a towel in the middle and gently hold it as I roll it over watching for it to be limber. BE SLOW AND GENTLE SO IT DOESN'T BREAK THE MEATS SURFACE INSIDE THE WRAPPING.
    5) At that time, if limber, I use the towel and squeeze the meat thru the towel, where I am feeling the flat for a "hard lump" inside that is not soft yet.
    I find this lump to be in the thickest area of the center of the flat. (The area next to where the point begins)
    For me this is the last area of each packer to become tender.
    This squeezing is similar to feeling or pressing down on a steak to determine just how done it is.
    6) When that hard lump is just starting to get softer, I then pull that specific packer, open its wrapping and gently and slowly add 3/4 cup of water into the paper wrapping edge, letting it slowly run into the area surrounding the meat as to not wash off the bark or spice rub.
    Now I close the wrapping back, and rest that packer at a temperature of about 110°F for two hours.
    It is important to allow this rest period so it can slowly decelerate in temperature, relax and reabsorb moisture.
    Note: If you cooked it hot and fast and pull it when done and put it into a cooler, it will carry-over, overcook, become dry, and crumbly.
    Also note that I am pulling the packer when it is NOT fully done, and is actually still somewhat tough.
    If sliced, that slice will not break easily when pulled and will pull sort of like rubber with an elastic like stretch to it.
    7) So, at the end of the two-hour rest period, I heavily wrap the packer in Glad plastic wrap, wrapping OVER the moist butcher paper.
    8) Next, it goes through a moist hold period at 148°F.
    This hold is for 8 to 10 or more hours where the still somewhat tough packer slowly cooks and finalizes its exacting tenderness, plus it redistributes moisture throughout.
    -
    You can accomplish the hold period in anything that will keep a consistent heat at lower temperatures, like a dehydrator, or a MasterBuilt 40 electric smoker, which is WELL worth the money BTW.
    -
    A friend of mine sells 20 to 25 packers each weekend and uses 10 MasterBuilt 40's to finish cooking after the KBQ smoke, and then he holds his packers in them.
    They are inexpensive too.
    I bought a new one still in the box for $160
    The MasterBuilt can be made to be incredibly moist with a built-in water pan, plus I put water in another pan plus a cookie sheet on the 4th (bottom) rack.
    I just used mine last night after wrapping to cook 3 packers in extremely heavy moisture to that limber state before the rest and hold periods.
    VERY Highly recommended.

    So, basically, the moist hold at 148°F will continue to break down collagen into gelatin WITHOUT overcooking that packer.
    Doneness for me has been "Spot On" EVERY TIME since I started using this new procedure.
    -
    NO LONGER DO I HAVE...
    Dry, overcooked crumbly beef brisket.
    -
    It is consistantly Just Right.
    Try it!
    Again I encourage you to...
    "Embrace the Hold" my fellow KBQ Pitmasters!
    Last edited by BBQ_Bill; June 22, 2019, 09:25 PM. Reason: Typo, grammar edits.

    #2
    A very nice write up of a way to do brisket a tough piece of meat to master. I think I will still stick with my dry brine for 24 hours and then inject with beef broth right before putting on the smoker. It is so good that way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by mountainsmoker; June 23, 2019, 02:41 PM.

    Comment


    • BBQ_Bill
      BBQ_Bill commented
      Editing a comment
      After a 30-day wet age period, I pull, open, trim, weigh, rub with Kosher salt (1/2 TEA-spoon per pound of trimmed and ready meat) and vacuum bag. Then, hold for 24 hours to one week, but no more than that. Next, spritz, rub with 16 mesh cracked black peppercorn, and allow to come up just a bit in temperature before putting into the smoke.
      I have tried several beef broths but my customers do not like the flavor, so I gave up on it.

    • gcdmd
      gcdmd commented
      Editing a comment
      BBQ_Bill I'm with your customers on the beef broth. I never have liked the flavor of canned beef broth. I use chicken broth as my braising liquid for beef pot roast with good results. Cook's Illustrated did one of their blind taste tests a number of years ago on pot roast and found that a mixture of beef and chicken broths was the favorite. I haven't tried it, but now that I am reminded I may. You might try injecting with just chicken broth and let the brisket do the mixing of the two flavors.

    #3
    That is quite a process but you mention the quality of end result, so well worth the effort.
    You don't mention your start cooking temps assume 225F?
    Kind of you to share your new found technique after testing. It is much appreciated.
    Would be interested to know if you have tried with different grades of meat and the outcome if you have.
    I ask because I battle to find acceptable brisket in RSA and therefore don't cook as often as I would like.
    I need to get a brisket and try this.irrespective of grade and see how it turns out.

    Comment


    • BBQ_Bill
      BBQ_Bill commented
      Editing a comment
      Thank you for your kind reply. 225°F to 230°F are my temps. CAB high choice from Restaurant Depot is my standard, and went to that a few months back. Was using Costco prime, but the beefy flavor of the Angus was the deciding factor in changing sources. Am reasonably sure the hold will work regardless, as it also worked for pork steaks. It's sort of like Sous Vide in my way of analyzing the why.

    • BBQ_Bill
      BBQ_Bill commented
      Editing a comment
      A couple of notes...
      The KBQ is a convection smoker. The hot moving air cooks like it is around 25°F higher. Sizzling on the flat edges indicates it is too hot, so I drop 5°F at a time until it stops. In my KBQs there's no sizzling at 225°F to 230°F. However, higher fat content allows for higher temperatures without the sizzling, BTW.. sizzling dries and ruins the area of meat that is too hot/sizzling. (Usually the briskets flat on the corners)

    • holehogg
      holehogg commented
      Editing a comment
      BBQ_Bill many thanks will let you know how my attempt turns out.

    #4
    Thanks for the write-up. I find several MasterBuilt 40 inch models when searching. Which model number do you use?

    Would you recommend a moist hold period for pork butt?

    Comment


    • BBQ_Bill
      BBQ_Bill commented
      Editing a comment
      I will post my reply below as a comment will not allow photos.
      I held pork steaks from the shoulder (butt) and they became more tender and were moist as well. A whole shoulder (butt)? I donno... sorry.

    #5
    Another BBQ_Bill masterpiece. You’re really fine tuning your game these days. Bet that’s some awesome meat !!

    Comment


    • BBQ_Bill
      BBQ_Bill commented
      Editing a comment
      Another new tip...
      Pull the butcher paper off to slice, but 1-gallon baggie the paper and put the paper back in the 148°F hold.
      Next, add the paper to one gallon of water in a stock pot and boil. Use tongs to "wash" the gelatin out of the paper. Simmer down and inject your next brisket flat. WAY better than ANY store-bought beef broth!
      Angus beefy flavor!

    • JimLinebarger
      JimLinebarger commented
      Editing a comment
      BBQ_Bill I have always been concerned about the amount of liquid absorbed by the paper. But with this method, you pay it forward so it is not lost. That is brilliant.

    • BBQ_Bill
      BBQ_Bill commented
      Editing a comment
      Jim, you can simply use it as a sauce over flat slices as well and it is utterly fantastic. TRUST me on this! My "official" taster was "blown away" by the flavor, INCLUDING the perceived plus the actual moisture that this "rescued" gelatin gives the brisket flat slices. This discovery is a SERIOUS break-thru for those in competition!

    #6
    Up until recently I was a "don't wrap until its done" guy. But the last brisket I did I wrapped after the stall (long story but 8t wasn't necessarily planned) and it was excellent. I have another in my freezer I will try that again. There was still some nice bark but the wrap gave it a nice chewiness and stickiness I really liked.

    Comment


    • BBQ_Bill
      BBQ_Bill commented
      Editing a comment
      Absolutely!
      I can also run in a 160°F dehydrator for 45 minutes to firm up the bark to a delicate crunch.

    • Huskee
      Huskee commented
      Editing a comment
      That's what I do, wrap after the stall.

    #7
    I’ve been doing overnight holds lately (so I could sleep!) and have been really pleased with how tender brisket comes out.

    Comment


      #8
      BBQ_Bill what poppet settings do you use and how full do you keep your firebox?

      Comment


      • BBQ_Bill
        BBQ_Bill commented
        Editing a comment
        Howdy lostclusters!
        I have settled in on 1/4" top, full bottom.
        I go with roughly 8" pieces and let them burn down to half and tamp hard. Then let them go until 1/3 full and bust them up to keep the fire tray holes always covered. Fill near full each time as I have 9 cords of Mesquite.

      #9
      The MasterBuilt Smoker I bought is an older model I believe.
      Got it new in the box on Craigslist.
      I have no desire to use the smoking function.
      It is however, the perfect answer to my needs for a moist oven to finish the cook.
      I use it after the smoked briskets are just coming out of the stall and are wrapped.
      Ran it at 250°F per my center rack FireBoard probe fed thru the vent in the top.
      -
      Model: 20075315
      For a Review, click Here

      Click image for larger version  Name:	20190622_194019.jpg Views:	1 Size:	522.7 KB ID:	699879Click image for larger version  Name:	2019-06-23_20-11-20.jpg Views:	1 Size:	83.7 KB ID:	699878

      Click image for larger version  Name:	2019-06-23_20-03-57.jpg Views:	1 Size:	153.3 KB ID:	699880

      Click image for larger version  Name:	20190623_194752.jpg Views:	1 Size:	407.6 KB ID:	699877

      The basic rule in my "book" is to always put water in-between the meat and the heat.
      I got this rule from Aaron Franklin, who probably knows more about brisket than most of us back yard smoking dudes and dudettes.
      Note that I added the 3rd brisket there on the 3rd rack after it finally started coming out of its stall.
      (No two briskets are exactly the same)
      The window on this unit had water running down it like a "serious sauna" and that water then hit the hot tin drain pan and evaporated so the water kept recycling.
      -
      I put a cookie sheet on the 4th rack, added water, and then a crock pot with boiling water added.
      This is all in ADDITION to the units standard water pan which is next to the heat below.
      UNBELIEVABLY MOIST final cook!
      I was really "wowed, jazzed, and pumped" by this as it truly is amazing!
      If you try this as shown above...

      >>> PLEASE BE CAREFUL WHEN OPENING THE DOOR! <<<
      >>> THE STEAM THAT POURS OUT IS SERIOUSLY SCARY! <<<
      Last edited by BBQ_Bill; June 23, 2019, 10:32 PM. Reason: Added a Link

      Comment


      • BBQ_Bill
        BBQ_Bill commented
        Editing a comment
        One more nice attribute is that it is outside, standard 120 Volt, and the house is not heated up during my brisket cooks.

      • jlazar
        jlazar commented
        Editing a comment
        Thank you.

      • hogdog6
        hogdog6 commented
        Editing a comment
        Great write up BBQ_Bill. My son and I are starting to look seriously at selling some bbq. Regulations are making it tough. But using some of your techniques has really upped my brisket game. Thanks for the new info.

      #10
      Try selling to the corner break trucks.
      I speak fluent Spanish so it works for me.

      Comment


        #11
        Great write up.

        Comment


        • BBQ_Bill
          BBQ_Bill commented
          Editing a comment
          Thank you kind sir.

        #12
        UPDATE:
        I called the MasterBuilt folks and purchased an extra element and an extra control board.
        These with shipping were around $70 total if my memory serves me, but I can check when I get back home.
        -
        The tech WARNED me that this much moisture may get into the control board and short it out.
        So, I bought the spare.
        ALSO, I am going to open the top, remove the control board and coat it with circuit board sealant as well as seal the compartment it is in.
        Will be adding a large desiccant bag inside that sealed compartment too.
        -
        All of this is to make sure it keeps on adding that incredible moisture to the meat and keeps on cooking faster because moist heat does both of these things.

        Comment


        • ddevine
          ddevine commented
          Editing a comment
          Hi Bill, How has the Masterbuilt held up for you. I see them from time to time but I don't see the control panel available anymore from Masterbuilt 5315. I did pick up a cheap 40 propane but only to extend the cook after the KBQ stuff has been wrapped but I don't think it will go low enough to 148 without flame outs even with a wind screen.

        #13
        It seems that this method would also work in the PBC because it is similar to a convection oven. I was wondering how you kept things at 148F but you gave the answer to that. It would be difficult to "justify" another cooker (since I also would like a pellet) partially since I cook for only 3 and do brisket only 2 or 3 times a year, same with pork butt. Convinced my wife about the pellet, now will have to work on the electric. But it seems it would do jerky very well.
        Last edited by JimLinebarger; June 28, 2019, 09:55 PM.

        Comment


          #14
          So, could you ‘rest’ it in a steam convection oven set at 145°F? (Wolf steam/convection)

          Comment


          • BBQ_Bill
            BBQ_Bill commented
            Editing a comment
            Absolutely, but the word "Rest" as I use or explain it, is for the 110°F two-hour post cook period where the packer slowly comes down from around 200°F to about 150°F.
            Aaron Franklin states that this deceleration period is critical.
            Holding on the other hand, is 148°F for me, and is actually right after the rest period.
            The hold extends for several hours, with 10 hours being common for my packers as well as Franklin's.
            The Wolf unit is one I looked at and I DO like it!

          #15
          UPDATE:
          Just bought a second new-in-the-box 40" MasterBuilt due to not having enough room to finish packers from the KBQ's.
          (Am still looking for more of these units on Craigslist)
          As of this very minute, am "seasoning" this new one at 275°F which will be for 3 hours total time as instructed.
          -
          Am only running 4 packers this next KBQ smoke.
          They are currently vacuum dry brining out in the 33°F fridge.
          Will be smoking 2 packers per KBQ so they will have "lots of room" in the smoky hot air.
          Afterwards, looking to finish 2 packers per MasterBuilt in heavy humidity.
          (Again, lots of room inside each one for only two packers)
          In looking at a size comparison...
          these 40" models actually match the KBQ pretty well in that they will both do a pretty good job with three packers max.
          -
          So the basic smoke/cook is 9 to 10 hours of KBQ smoke, then pull and "double" wrap tightly in 40# pink butcher paper.
          Leave paper wrapped and finish to near done in a 40" MasterBuilt at a temperature that is 25°F higher than the KBQ finish temperature.
          Remember to get the fat to render you will need to push the temperature up a bit through the stall, and then after wrap, you can go quite a bit higher to really render that fat between the point and flat muscles.
          -
          My plans are to run these two MasterBuilt "ovens" with a very high humidity to finish the cook.
          When each packer is almost there, I plan to pull that individual packer and rest it for 2 hours at 110°F.
          Note that the internal temperature will drop from approximately 205°F to around 145°F to 150°F at the end of the 2-hour rest period.
          -
          Finally, I plan to hold these four at 148°F with high humidity for 6 hour minimum but am actually wanting a 10 hour hold before slicing/serving.
          45 minutes before the line forms, I will start to dehydrate the surface of two of these packers at 160°F.
          This is to lightly dry up the surface and set the bark. (MUST be gentle when transferring)
          When the time looks right, the other two will go into the large commercial dehydrator to give the bark that wonderfully delicate crunch on the surface.
          -
          This smoke/cook is basically to introduce a group of (I am told) 80 individuals at a Pot Luck lunch to my personal recipe for "Texas Style" beef brisket.
          These beef briskets will be nothing more than high choice Certified Black Angus beef, clean mesquite smoke, apple cider vinegar, Kosher salt and 16 mesh cracked black pepper.
          -
          Looking forward to this event and to how things turn out!
          Smoke On!
          Last edited by BBQ_Bill; October 1, 2019, 11:32 PM.

          Comment


          • hogdog6
            hogdog6 commented
            Editing a comment
            Looking forward to the crowd reaction.

          • BBQ_Bill
            BBQ_Bill commented
            Editing a comment
            Most were very complimentary. Some said it was the best they have ever eaten. I personally was disappointed in the outcome, but then, I am always wanting better flavor. Working on a few new ideas hogdog6
            Will post results to a new KBQ mod as well as bark booster. We will see...

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