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I need some advice after an epic burnt ends failure

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    I need some advice after an epic burnt ends failure

    Yesterday I decided to try making burnt ends for the first time and it was a disaster, so I need some advice from more experienced pit-masters.
    Some background: I did 2 Prime packers last fall that were about 10 3/4 lbs. each in separate cooks. I did them at 240 and they were done in 11 1/2 hours, which was just over an hour per pound, and both turned out great. It should be noted that they were done on my old smoker, a Grand Slam, and they were put directly on the grates.
    I now have a Grid Iron with multiple shelves. For this cook I had a Choice packer that I trimmed and separated the flat & point. In retrospect I took too much fat off the point but there were other issues that had more impact on the failure.
    The flat weighed 5 3/4 lbs. and the point was 2 3/4 lbs. so based on my previous experience I reasoned that the flat would take just shy of 7 hours and the point should take just over 3 hours, using an hour and 10 mins. per pound as my guide.
    Both pieces were placed on the middle shelf in the smoker and spritzed with water and cider vinegar every hour. I put the Blaz'n Smoker Pro box (think Amaz'N tube) on the grates below this shelf and used 100% hickory in it as well as the hopper. I wrapped the flat in butcher paper after 4 hours with a good bark and an internal temp of 165, which was when I put the point on. At the 7 hour mark, when I thought the flat would be done, it was only at 163 internal. At that time I wrapped the point after 2 1/2 hours based on the bark, but the internal temp was only 135. Since it was considerably smaller, I didn't think I should try to take it to 165-170 before wrapping. I also upped the pit to 275 hoping to power through what appeared to be a late stall (?) The flat was on for 8 1/2 hours before it got to 198 and the point took 5 1/2 hours to get to 192, neither piece was probe tender. I pulled and cambro'd the flat for 90 min. and I cut the point into cubes, sauced them, and put them back on for about 45 minutes. In the end the burnt end pieces were tough and very chewy, to the point of not being edible. The flat was very dry and in the end it wasn't edible either, both pieces had an overwhelming smoky taste which I've never experienced with a pellet smoker.
    So here are some things that I'm wondering about: 1) could Choice vs. Prime have made that much of a difference? 2) could the larger Grid Iron and cooking on the middle shelf have made a significant difference due to increased air flow vs. the Grand Slam? 3) I'm not sure that I've ever been able to discern the difference between different pellet types, i.e. apple, oak, pecan, etc. but I'm wondering if the hickory and using the additional smoke box contributed to the heavy smokiness? 4) I followed the heygrillhey video on making burnt ends but it just didn't happen, my temps and the timing were completely off. 5) Do those of you who have succeeded in making burnt ends separate the muscles before, during, or after cooking?
    Sorry for the length of this, I'm truly baffled by this failure and I need to figure out how to fix things going forward. Maybe I'll try a full packer and keep it intact then try burnt ends later. Maybe I just need to learn the Grid Iron and the differences in cooking on the different shelves vs. directly on the grates. I'd appreciate any advice the Pit can give me.

    #2
    Thickness determines cook time, not mass. Tenderness is the real measure of doneness, temperature is only a cue to start checking for tenderness.

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      #3
      I am not an expert on making these either, but i would say you probably both wrapped the meat too early and then pulled it too early. Smaller cuts don’t necessarily cook faster, and if you are done too soon, a longer hold in the faux cambro is usually fine.

      Comment


        #4
        Sounds like it needed more time. For brisket I expect to be north of 200 internal when probe tender. I don't separate, but don't think that played a big part in the results. My group likes the point sliced so I've only done burnt ends once, can't be much help on the step.

        Comment


          #5
          This will sound over simplified but it works for me every time with the pellet pooper: I select quality meat (which is key IMO), leave a little fat on, dry brine overnight, set the temp to 250, rub, then plop on the grill. I don't look at it, probe it, poke it or even stick it with a thermometer before 7-8 hrs. I never spritz, wrap, or pan, just let it ride. They're usually probe tender and wobbly around 10 hrs and I only temp check for confirmation. Here's a great recipe for burnt ends too: https://jesspryles.com/recipe/best-e...et-burnt-ends/
          Last edited by CaptainMike; March 30, 2019, 10:10 AM.

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          • Flat Rocker
            Flat Rocker commented
            Editing a comment
            Thank you Cap'n. Maybe it's time I try your method and "learn" to cook vs. paying so much attention to temps.

          • CaptainMike
            CaptainMike commented
            Editing a comment
            Flat Rocker it wouldn't have even occurred to me to smoke a brisket before joining this group! Now all of my friends and family say I'm some sort of a savant, whatever that means.

          • CaptainMike
            CaptainMike commented
            Editing a comment
            p.s. I will separate the point at some point in the cook if I'm planning on doing burnt ends (which is usually).

          #6
          It’s all about thickness, not time per pound. For me personally, on my kettle, running 275, I’ve found full prime packers take roughly 11 hours and separated points and flats take roughly 7 hours.

          Comment


            #7
            I've found 11 hours to be 'quick'. Running ~ 235F, 12 - 16 hours has been my experience to reach probe-tender, somewhere in an IT range of ~ 205 - 212 F and a brisket reduced to ~ 10 lbs +/- after being trimmed. That's leaving the point and flat attached, in fact I've never tried separating them, but will now for Pastrami.

            You can work on your burnt ends game with a well-marbled Angus chuckie from Aldi's. I do ~ one a month, the chuck takes little prep, is ready faster, and it's a crowd pleaser.

            Comment


              #8
              I'd ditch the times (per pound stuff) and not apply them to another brisket, ever.

              I'd also cook any point that is separated from the flat for burnt ends to about 205 internal. I don't wrap at all. Once at 205 I cube up and test for pull apart tenderness. If not quite there I'll pan and cover and cook until tender, then apply sauce and caramelize.

              If a point is still connected to the flat, I just go until the thickest part of the flat is probe tender, then 1 of 2 things: 1. Put it all to rest for 2-4 hours and make burnt ends after, or 2. Separate the point and do I what I mentioned earlier.

              Comment


                #9
                +1 on all the advice. Temp, not time. I have done brisket that was done in 12 hours; others have taken 18. Before I came to AR, I always cooked based on time, now I never do.

                Comment


                  #10
                  I appreciate the advice from everyone. I need to quit focusing on time and learn to cook! Thanks all.

                  Comment

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