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Grass-Fed Beef Short Plate Question

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  • fzxdoc
    Founding Member
    • Jul 2014
    • 5399
    • My toys:
      Weber Summit Charcoal Grilling Center (WSCGC) aka Mr. Fancypants
      Pit Barrel Cooker (which rocks), named Pretty Baby
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      Weber Kettle Premium 22" named Kettle Kid, eager to horn in with more cooks in the future
      Camp Chef Somerset IV 4-burner outdoor gas range named AfterBurner due to its 30kBTU burners


      Adrenaline BBQ Company Gear:
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      BBQ Dragon and Dragon Chimney

      Shun Classic Series:
      8" Chef Knife
      6" Chef's Knife
      Gokujo Boning and Fillet Knife
      3 1/2 inch Paring Knife

    Grass-Fed Beef Short Plate Question

    A friend of ours raises grass-fed Devon cattle. He's new to the game with this breed and pasture. He gave us some of his first butcher on a bull that did not have a good enough conformation to be allowed to live well and prosper. He wants feedback. One package in the lot contained two 2-bone pieces of short plate dino ribs.

    I don't have access to nice-sized thick cuts of short plate, except for short ribs, so getting my mitts on these two mid-sized dino-rib cuts was exciting. The pieces were about 3 inches thick with the meat in two tiers separated by a plane of fat. Top tier--virtually no marbling; bottom tier next to the bone--a bit of marbling.

    I smoked at 275° and the ribs were done in 5 hours (!), so I had to faux cambro for 4 more hours, serving at 155° meat temp. I pulled/wrapped/cambroed at probe tenderness which was 190° in the tier close to the bone.

    I could tell that the top tier was dried out by looking at it. We could eat it chopped with BBQ sauce but it was a dry bite otherwise. But the bottom tier was a nice chunk of pure beef heaven--perfectly done and delicious. Of course it had a little fat in it while the top was pretty much fat-free.

    I'd like to try this again with another similar piece of short plate and am thinking of QVQ or SVQ ing it since the two layers of muscle have drastically different fat contents. Either that or maybe I should just remove the top layer and go with the lower, marbled one and smoke it all the way at 275° again. The layers are each about an inch or more thick.

    Any thoughts on how I should cook the next one?

    Thanks,
    Kathryn

    P.S. I'm not much of a fan of smoking grass-fed beef because of its low fat content and sometimes gamey flavor, but my friend wants me to give different cuts a try and let him know my findings. So that's why I'm not too familiar with smoking 100% grass-fed beef.
    Last edited by fzxdoc; September 23, 2018, 07:05 AM.
  • EdF
    EdF
    Club Member
    • Jul 2016
    • 3228
    • Atlantic Highlands, NJ
    • Uuni Pro (new kid in town)
      Karubeque C-60
      Large BGE since 2002 + plate setter + pizza stone + upper grid + stainless paella pan for drippings (the best!)
      TEC Cherokee FR since 2014 (portable infrared grill - does a mighty sear)
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      Thermapen
      Thermapen Air
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      Thermoworks Hi temp IR
      BBQ Dragon & Chimney of Insanity
      Various other stuff

    #2
    I'd QVQ or SVQ - short rib is one of the best cuts for that treatment. Potkettleblack can no doubt give some sage advice.

    Or you can search for short rib here: https://www.evernote.com/l/AKIlTFr77..._MJOc6dUsrYfbw
    Last edited by EdF; September 22, 2018, 03:13 PM.

    Comment

    • johnec00
      Charter Member
      • Aug 2014
      • 605
      • Orlando, Florida
      • Equipment:
        '88 Vintage Fire Magic gasser with over 3000 cooks to its credit
        18 Inch Weber Kettle (Rescued from neighbor's trash)
        Rotisserie for 18 inch kettle
        Master Forge propane smoker
        Pit Barrel Cooker
        Smokey Joe with mini WSM mod
        Garcima paella burner
        Anova Sous Vide
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        2X Thermoworks cooking thermometer
        DIY 4 channel bluetooth thermometer
        LEM grinder, sausage stuffer and meat slicer (all gifts)

        Favorite Beer:
        Key West Wheat

      #3
      I'd give a Q-SV a try. Smoke until a reasonable bark then bag and SV at a relatively high temperature (maybe 180º-190º) for 4-5 hours. As final polish, sear on the gasser to re-set the bark. Can't say I've done this with grass fed anything, but it's been successful for select brisket flat pastrami. Anyway just my 2¢.

      Comment

      • Potkettleblack
        Club Member
        • Jun 2016
        • 1970
        • Beautiful Downtown Berwyn
        • Grill: Grilla Original / Weber Genesis EP-330 / OK Joe Bronco Drum
          Thermometers: Thermapen / iGrill 2 / Fireboard
          For Smoke: Chunks / Pellet Tube / Mo Pouch
          Sous Vide: Joule / Nomiku WiFi (RIP Nomiku)
          Disqus: Le Chef - (something something something) - it changes

        #4
        Personally, I’d Sous Vide long, shock and then smoke hotter than 275. But I’m out of the grass fed business, as I don’t care for the flavor without some silage to finish.

        as a side note, the only things I SV north of 160 are vegetables and eggs.

        Comment

        • fzxdoc
          Founding Member
          • Jul 2014
          • 5399
          • My toys:
            Weber Summit Charcoal Grilling Center (WSCGC) aka Mr. Fancypants
            Pit Barrel Cooker (which rocks), named Pretty Baby
            Weber Summit S650 Gas Grill, named Hot 'n Fast (used mostly for searing and griddling)
            Weber Kettle Premium 22" named Kettle Kid, eager to horn in with more cooks in the future
            Camp Chef Somerset IV 4-burner outdoor gas range named AfterBurner due to its 30kBTU burners


            Adrenaline BBQ Company Gear:
            SnS, DnG, andLarge Charcoal Basket, for WSCGC
            SnS for 22" Kettle
            Elevated SS Rack for WSCGC
            SS Rack for DnG
            Cast Iron Griddle
            Grill Grate for SnS
            Grill Grates: five 17.375 sections (retired to storage)
            Grill Grates: six 19.25 panels for exact fit for Summit S650 gasser
            2 Grill Grate Griddles
            Steelmade Griddle for Summit gas grill

            Fireboard Gear:
            Extreme BBQ Thermometer Package
            Additional control unit
            Additional probes: Competition Probes 1" (3) and 4" (1), 3 additional Ambient Probes. 1 additional Food Probe
            2 Driver Cables
            Pit Viper Fan (to pair with Fireboard Fan Driver Cable)
            Pit Viper Fan new design (to pair with Fireboard Fan Driver Cable)
            Thermoworks Gear:
            Thermapen MK5 (pink)
            Thermapen MK4 (pink too)
            Thermoworks MK5 orange
            Temp Test 2 Smart Thermometer
            Extra Big and Loud Timer
            Timestick Trio
            Maverick ET 73 a little workhorse with limited range
            Maverick ET 733
            Maverick (Ivation) ET 732

            Grill Pinz
            Vortex (two of them)

            Two Joule Sous Vide devices
            VacMaster Pro 350 Vacuum Sealer

            Instant Pot 6 Quart Electric Pressure Cooker
            Instant Pot 10 Quart Electric Pressure Cooker

            Charcoal Companion TurboQue
            A-Maze-N tube 12 inch tube smoker accessory for use with pellets

            BBQ Dragon and Dragon Chimney

            Shun Classic Series:
            8" Chef Knife
            6" Chef's Knife
            Gokujo Boning and Fillet Knife
            3 1/2 inch Paring Knife

          #5
          I hear you about grass-fed flavor, Potkettleblack , which is why I'm so inexperienced in smoking cuts from 100% grass fed beef. I never buy the stuff. I've had some really gamey grass-fed beef meals at restaurants in the past and it was always an unpleasant experience. But this particular beef from our friend is not gamey-tasting, just super lean.

          Sounds like the consensus is that sous vide has to step in and save the day, one way or another. Thanks, johnec00 , Postkettleblack, and EdF for your thoughts. I'm leaning toward SV-Q for my next try.

          Ed, that's a quite nice SV info compilation from posts on The Pit that you have there on Evernote. I scrolled to the section that you had on beef ribs. Lots of good ideas. Thank you. I miss Breadhead (one of the references in those notes). He did some amazing cooks.

          Kathryn

          Comment

          • HouseHomey
            Club Member
            • May 2016
            • 5570
            • Huntington Beach, Ca. Surf City USA.
            • Equipment
              Primo Oval xl

              Slow n Sear (two)
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              Erik S.

            #6
            Kathyrn

            Any pics? It sounds like the bottom portion was great. Why mess with it. IMHO if the top piece was like lean pork loin I would cook it separately and " go with what you know" with the bottom portion.

            Eliminate the variable. Leave the ugly friend a home.

            Clean it up real nice, SV, shock in a new bag with marinade, square it up, cut it in half, kabob it or stir fry that sucker with onions peppers and a glaze of whatever your marinade was.

            This also proves the theory that fat does not melt into the beat.

            i just can't get over cooking the meat a different way adjusting for the odd piece that has no fat. Perhaps find the best way to help the ugly friend and see if the pretty one will take well to that date/method.

            Just my Opninion
            Erik

            Comment


            • fzxdoc
              fzxdoc commented
              Editing a comment
              Yeah, I see your point, Erik. I was trying to "dance with who brung me". I should have jettisoned off the top layer. I'll do that next time if I BBQ it all the way. But first I'm going to give it a chance with SVQ.

              K.
          • Potkettleblack
            Club Member
            • Jun 2016
            • 1970
            • Beautiful Downtown Berwyn
            • Grill: Grilla Original / Weber Genesis EP-330 / OK Joe Bronco Drum
              Thermometers: Thermapen / iGrill 2 / Fireboard
              For Smoke: Chunks / Pellet Tube / Mo Pouch
              Sous Vide: Joule / Nomiku WiFi (RIP Nomiku)
              Disqus: Le Chef - (something something something) - it changes

            #7
            As fortune would have it, I have a Crowd Cow procured 3 bone chuck short rib that I’m finishing today. I decided to experiment with 155 instead of my usual 133 for short rib, and do a QVQ process. First smoke was 200* for maybe 3 or four hours. To 150 IT and decent bark setting. 155x24 based on ChefSteps videos. I think second Q will be up at 275 or 300 on the Grilla. Note: my 200 works a bit more like 225 on Grilla because of convection.

            Comment

            • Potkettleblack
              Club Member
              • Jun 2016
              • 1970
              • Beautiful Downtown Berwyn
              • Grill: Grilla Original / Weber Genesis EP-330 / OK Joe Bronco Drum
                Thermometers: Thermapen / iGrill 2 / Fireboard
                For Smoke: Chunks / Pellet Tube / Mo Pouch
                Sous Vide: Joule / Nomiku WiFi (RIP Nomiku)
                Disqus: Le Chef - (something something something) - it changes

              #8
              Click image for larger version

Name:	99AA960B-04B2-4A56-ACAA-2893A4C46578.jpeg
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ID:	569929Click image for larger version

Name:	F4160647-399A-460F-8E0A-CF45EDEA34F9.jpeg
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ID:	569928 Out of the bag after a
              dip in water warming for Sous Vide.

              and after about an hour and a half at 300 on the Grilla.
              Or opposite. The wet looking one is out of the bag.

              Any rate, it has the jiggle. Was Sous Vide at 155 for 24h.

              Will be portioned for meals this week.

              Comment


              • Potkettleblack
                Potkettleblack commented
                Editing a comment
                Was really great, even though I shoved it in the fridge, deboned a section, took to work and nuked back to life. Had that jiggle coming off the second smoke, and was pulled very simply, and cut very tender against the grain.

                So this was bones, fat, muscle on top of the fat. That's your usual short rib. If there's another layer on top of that, it's chuck. I'd separate it at the second layer

              • fzxdoc
                fzxdoc commented
                Editing a comment
                Good to know, Potkettleblack about the composition of that second layer. I've seen a lot of dino ribs here on the Pit with both layers, which is why I thought it should be left on. The lower layer on my ribs were just as you describe about your ribs--jiggly, tender, with fat like you'd find in the point of a brisket--sooooo good!

                K.

              • Potkettleblack
                Potkettleblack commented
                Editing a comment
                I’ll post a picture of what’s left, so we can be sure we’re talking about the same thing.
            • Dadof3Illinois
              Club Member
              • Jul 2017
              • 959
              • Southeast Illinois

              #9
              I’m not a fan of 100% grass fed beef either. Way too much variation in pastures even in the same regions.
              Ive had great luck by wrapping after you set a good bark. Then give them a good sear to finish.

              Comment

              • Potkettleblack
                Club Member
                • Jun 2016
                • 1970
                • Beautiful Downtown Berwyn
                • Grill: Grilla Original / Weber Genesis EP-330 / OK Joe Bronco Drum
                  Thermometers: Thermapen / iGrill 2 / Fireboard
                  For Smoke: Chunks / Pellet Tube / Mo Pouch
                  Sous Vide: Joule / Nomiku WiFi (RIP Nomiku)
                  Disqus: Le Chef - (something something something) - it changes

                #10
                Click image for larger version

Name:	F0EF019A-612B-4C12-B47F-239B7CF02591.jpeg
Views:	106
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ID:	570685Click image for larger version

Name:	56131C5C-D881-4845-BD64-3A0ADF97BF5A.jpeg
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ID:	570684 This is right out of the fridge. Comes back very nicely in the science oven.

                Comment


                • HouseHomey
                  HouseHomey commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Chef Mike comes in handy for melting cheese too! Those look great!!
              • fzxdoc
                Founding Member
                • Jul 2014
                • 5399
                • My toys:
                  Weber Summit Charcoal Grilling Center (WSCGC) aka Mr. Fancypants
                  Pit Barrel Cooker (which rocks), named Pretty Baby
                  Weber Summit S650 Gas Grill, named Hot 'n Fast (used mostly for searing and griddling)
                  Weber Kettle Premium 22" named Kettle Kid, eager to horn in with more cooks in the future
                  Camp Chef Somerset IV 4-burner outdoor gas range named AfterBurner due to its 30kBTU burners


                  Adrenaline BBQ Company Gear:
                  SnS, DnG, andLarge Charcoal Basket, for WSCGC
                  SnS for 22" Kettle
                  Elevated SS Rack for WSCGC
                  SS Rack for DnG
                  Cast Iron Griddle
                  Grill Grate for SnS
                  Grill Grates: five 17.375 sections (retired to storage)
                  Grill Grates: six 19.25 panels for exact fit for Summit S650 gasser
                  2 Grill Grate Griddles
                  Steelmade Griddle for Summit gas grill

                  Fireboard Gear:
                  Extreme BBQ Thermometer Package
                  Additional control unit
                  Additional probes: Competition Probes 1" (3) and 4" (1), 3 additional Ambient Probes. 1 additional Food Probe
                  2 Driver Cables
                  Pit Viper Fan (to pair with Fireboard Fan Driver Cable)
                  Pit Viper Fan new design (to pair with Fireboard Fan Driver Cable)
                  Thermoworks Gear:
                  Thermapen MK5 (pink)
                  Thermapen MK4 (pink too)
                  Thermoworks MK5 orange
                  Temp Test 2 Smart Thermometer
                  Extra Big and Loud Timer
                  Timestick Trio
                  Maverick ET 73 a little workhorse with limited range
                  Maverick ET 733
                  Maverick (Ivation) ET 732

                  Grill Pinz
                  Vortex (two of them)

                  Two Joule Sous Vide devices
                  VacMaster Pro 350 Vacuum Sealer

                  Instant Pot 6 Quart Electric Pressure Cooker
                  Instant Pot 10 Quart Electric Pressure Cooker

                  Charcoal Companion TurboQue
                  A-Maze-N tube 12 inch tube smoker accessory for use with pellets

                  BBQ Dragon and Dragon Chimney

                  Shun Classic Series:
                  8" Chef Knife
                  6" Chef's Knife
                  Gokujo Boning and Fillet Knife
                  3 1/2 inch Paring Knife

                #11
                Originally posted by Potkettleblack View Post
                I’ll post a picture of what’s left, so we can be sure we’re talking about the same thing.
                Yup, looks like you had the upper (no fat) muscle layer removed already, leaving that wonderful layer next to the bone. Next time I'll do the same thing. Thanks, Potkettleblack .

                Kathryn

                Comment


                • Potkettleblack
                  Potkettleblack commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Weird. Never seen them cut that way. The lean portion is some chuck portion that would be better ground up or as part of a chuckie, methinks.

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