Brisket and sous vide

[progenitive]

Greetings!

I've done brisket using sous vide twice, basically following Serious Eats technique, 155F for about 24-36 hours, then smoking to finish. [http://www.seriouseats.com/2016/08/f...q-brisket.html] The technique works quite well. However, I'd like more smoke flavor. The Serious Eats article mentions that Meathead prefers smoking first for more smoke flavor, "Well, according to folks like Meathead Goldwyn, author of the eponymous book on the science of barbecue, the flavorful compounds in smoke will adhere to and penetrate raw meat much better than they will with cooked meat.".

And I recall, and even have in my notes from last December, that there was a recipe for smoking first, then sous vide, then finishing briefly on the smoker at the end for better bark. But I can't find this recipe anywhere! I thought it was on AmazingRibs, but searching here isn't yielding anything.

Does anyone know where the recipe may be? Or even better, has anyone tried the "smoking first" method for sous vide brisket?

Thanks!
--Todd

[kmhfive]

I don't know where the recipe is. However, using your method, go from SV to ICE BATH to get a low temp to attract the smoke, then finish with good bark and probe-tender.

welcome to the Pit!

[johnec00]

Welcome to the pit. I did something like what you're asking about last year. It's posted here FWIW.

https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/forum/the-pit-mastery-program/beef-steak-brisket-roasts-prime-rib-etc/244349-brisket-not-cured-following-pit-boss-s-pastrami-perfected-method

[progenitive]

Thanks. that looks beautiful! Do you have any idea on pros/cons of using 195F for 4 hours v. 155F for 30 hours as I've done in the past? Obviously 195 is faster :-), but I'm curious if the two methods are otherwise about equivalent. --Todd

[johnec00]

If I understand your original post, you had smoked the meat after SV. If so, the difference is that I smoked (cooked in PBC) to about IT of 170º first then SV. I have done this with brisket exactly once, so have no info on other temperatures.

[johnec00]

If you want a very detailed description of the method (but for pastrami, not uncured brisket) here's the original post from ABCBBQ Dave.

https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/forum/the-pit-mastery-program/beef-steak-brisket-roasts-prime-rib-etc/148541-pastrami-perfected

[DWCowles]

Welcome progenitive

[David C]

I did an SRF brisket 1/3 SV then smoke, 1/3 smoke then SV, and 1/3 "ala Franklin." At the end of it, most preferred the straight BBQ version, and it was less work, so for now I'm back to that. I'm sure I'll try the combo again eventually, though.

[progenitive]

Thanks for reporting your experience! Could you share details of SV time/temperature for the 'smoke then SV' option?

[Jon Solberg]

Todd
You should try smoking one all the way in a smoker if you get a chance. It's amazing.

[DWCowles]

Great advice!

[Potkettleblack]

I might do something like smoke raw until stall. Sous vide anywhere from 131 to 155 for (and this is a curve), 48-24 hours, shock, chill, smoke again until Bark is set where you want it. If the bark is okay after SV but needs to set, might go for smoke roasting to retherm.

[Steve Vojtek]

Welcome progenitive .As much as I love SV i prefer to smoke my briskets all the way but that's a personal choice. I hope you find answers to your questions. Welcome to the Pit!

[Ernest]

progenitive 195 will give you a more traditional type crumble texture. 155 is more steak like texture.
I have done 145 degrees brisket flat for 72 hours, chilled and refrigerated. Smoked for 4 hours at 170 degrees before serving.

[Potkettleblack]

yeah, if I'm spending the time doing SV, I don't want that traditional texture. I want something novel, like 131 for 72 hours.

[progenitive]

Thank you all, for the welcomes, and the great suggestions. The brisket, point end, 5.5 pounds, is on the smoker. I expect about 6 hours to get to the stall, then I'll sous vide at 155 for 24 hours or so. I'll let you know what happened.

[DogFaced PonySoldier]

How about this?

Sous Vide 14lbs Whole Brisket with Camp Chef SmokePro and Joule by ChefSteps

[progenitive]

I'm not much of a video person, but spot checking this, it appears the main difference between what I did and what he did, is that I applied no initial rub; after SV I applied rub and smoked a second time for bark, while he applied rub before the initial smoke, and used a torch to sear after SV.

[Potkettleblack]

They have me excited about picana, but that might've been because I watched four different videos of them making different versions.

[DogFaced PonySoldier]

I see you already likely finished this... how about some pics and a report of how it turned out? I'm VERY interested, as I will likely be doing this pretty soon!

[progenitive]

DogFaced PonySoldier Thanks for the interest. After sous vide, 24 hours at 155F, I put the brisket in the refrigerator overnight. It is presently back on the smoker to form a bark. So far, so good!

[progenitive]

Summary of this brisket experiment.

****** Overall: stunning success. Best brisket I've made. Smoky flavor on target, moist, tender meat with good 'pull test' performance, crunchy bark.

In the interest of full disclosure, this was a very nice cut of brisket from my local butcher; cost $40 for 5.5 pound piece. It is not technically USDA prime, since it's not been graded at all, but I expect it's about equivalent based on marbling. See first picture below for a nice view of the piece of meat. I'm still interested in making a great brisket from a cheaper cut of meat, but trying to get technique down first.

****** Quick rundown of procedure (purchased meat Wednesday, started smoking on a Thursday, served for dinner Saturday):
1. Freeze (overnight)
2. Smoke to 157F (5 Hours - Thursday)
3. Sous Vide at 155F to tenderize/finish cooking (24 Hours, late Thursday afternoon to late Friday afternoon)
4. Chill, then Refrigerate (1 day, late Friday afternoon to late Saturday afternoon)
5. Apply rub and heat/smoke to build bark; ~140F internal temperature (2 Hours, Saturday afternoon/evening)
6. Serve

****** Commentary:
I did freezing as a test, basically to ensure more time on the smoker. I've not read of anyone else doing this, and was a bit afraid it would degrade the meat, but I saw no evidence of this. My setup tends to run hot (live in a big condo building, and charcoal is not allowed, my Weber gas grill was way too hot, even running the right burner and putting meat over the left burner, which was off. I finally figured out I can put the meat over a water pan, which moderates the temperature nicely).

****** The money shot (really happy at how this picture turned out!):


****** a few pictures in chronological order

setup - note water pan, chunks on "flavorizer" bars, plus some chips in the stainless box. mix of apple and pecan. if you see wrapping paper on the meat, yep, I couldn't get it off after getting the meat out of the freezer. It came off easily after about 10 minutes in the smoker.
Also note: no rub at this stage, and I didn't trim. Fat was a bit thick on bottom, but only 1/2" and not covering the entire bottom surface. This chunk of meat is basically the point on top of a bit of flat, with the rest of the flat cut off... my butcher will make pastrami out of that.


end of initial smoking process. meat has been flipped over once, because top tends to be hotter than near the water surface:


out of the refrigerator on Saturday, before building the bark:


rub applied, back on smoker late Saturday afternoon:


bark formation after 2 hours:


serving suggestion! minimal sauce on a nice ciabatta bun, toasted, and a little potato salad.

[Potkettleblack]

Nicely done. I think this smoke-Sous-shock-chill-smoke is probably the best way to do it.

In the video above, I get why they torch to finish, but torching provides a fairly superficial crust, so probably is not the best way to finish something that should be have Bark.

[progenitive]

besides not having a torch... I would be concerned about that too. the bark on this one I just finished was more substantial, a nice crunch. feels like maybe 1/4 inch thick on average.

[JGrana]

After torching two SV'd T-Bones this weekend, I would think you need a very large/very wide flame torch. And, lots of patience!!!!

[Potkettleblack]

If you're torching with a creme brulee torch, you will be there a long time. The Searzall is a must for torching, or something else to difuse the flame. But, I lack the patience to torch anything, and it won't for bark.