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Meat Saftey Question - 180 degrees overnight and only 130-135 degrees

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  • 101Airborne
    Club Member
    • Mar 2019
    • 31
    • Boulder Colorado

    Meat Saftey Question - 180 degrees overnight and only 130-135 degrees

    Good morning everyone. I am new to grilling.

    Last night I cooked my first 9 lb beef brisket on my pellet grill. I cooked the brisket at a steady 180 degrees overnight and this morning, 9 hours later, my brisket temp was 130-135 degrees. I did not probe the brisket until this morning, 9 hours later. I have since turned the grill up to 225 and wrapped the brisket in butcher paper to finish. I checked the app on my phone and my grill was at 180 degrees all night without changing temperature.

    Was my meat in the danger zone too long? Should this $50 brisket be tossed away?

    thanks for your time.
  • CaptainMike
    Club Member
    • Nov 2015
    • 2466
    • The Great State of Jefferson
    • Weber Summit Charcoal Grill w/SnS and DnG (Spartacus)
      Old school big'ol Traeger w/Pro controller (Big Tex)
      2 W22's w/SnS, DnG (1 black, 1 copper) (Minions 1 and 2)
      20+ y/o many times rebuilt Weber Genesis w/GrillGrates (Gas Passer)
      20 x 30 Santa Maria grill (Maria, duh)
      Bradley cabinet smoker (Pepper Gomez)
      36" Blackstone griddle (The Black Beauty)
      Fireboard
      Thermoworks Smoke and Thermapen.

    #2
    First off, Welcome from The Great State of Jefferson and thank you for your service, the 101st is a storied and noble group, you have my admiration.

    Secondly, you should be fine, just take that thing all the way to probe tender and above 195 or so. If you're really worried about it take it to 202-205. I run the pellet pooper at 250+ for briskets and they get done in 10 hrs or so. If you haven't done so already, check out Meathead's brisket recipe/technique here: https://amazingribs.com/tested-recip...et-texas-style. Smoke on!!
    Last edited by CaptainMike; April 5, 2019, 10:11 AM.

    Comment

    • Donw
      Club Member
      • Jul 2017
      • 3027

      #3
      Boy am I torn. I don’t want you to toss it, but the classic recipe for growing many types of bacterial cultures on blood agar is 35C (95F) for 24-72 hours. While the surface was kept at 180F for the period it can have knife cuts, fat pockets and other defects where the higher heat did not penetrate and may have created the right environment for bacterial growth. I wish I could suggest keeping it, but my gut says no. I know others might suggest turning up the heat and getting to safer levels overall, but that will mostly likely be a very dried out piece of meat with a doubt in every bite.

      Comment


      • Troutman
        Troutman commented
        Editing a comment
        It's all about the lack of anaerobic bacteria and the even cooking temps that make sous vide safer. There's also a fudge factor when they recommend 140* as the high end of the danger zone. 130* is actually the more realistic temp which is why SV starts in that range.

      • klflowers
        klflowers commented
        Editing a comment
        "bacterial cultures on blood agar", "anaerobic bacteria" with some Airborne thrown in. Where else am I going to get an education like this?

      • fzxdoc
        fzxdoc commented
        Editing a comment
        I'm with you, Donw , on this one. But then I'm one of the "when in doubt, throw it out" school. I never want anyone getting sick on food on my watch.

        Kathryn
    • CaptainMike
      Club Member
      • Nov 2015
      • 2466
      • The Great State of Jefferson
      • Weber Summit Charcoal Grill w/SnS and DnG (Spartacus)
        Old school big'ol Traeger w/Pro controller (Big Tex)
        2 W22's w/SnS, DnG (1 black, 1 copper) (Minions 1 and 2)
        20+ y/o many times rebuilt Weber Genesis w/GrillGrates (Gas Passer)
        20 x 30 Santa Maria grill (Maria, duh)
        Bradley cabinet smoker (Pepper Gomez)
        36" Blackstone griddle (The Black Beauty)
        Fireboard
        Thermoworks Smoke and Thermapen.

      #4
      101Airborne I think you need to tweak your technique a little, but here's what Meathead offers on the subject of food safety: https://amazingribs.com/more-techniq...d-grill-safety
      Last edited by CaptainMike; April 5, 2019, 11:00 AM.

      Comment

      • Huskee
        Pit Boss
        • May 2014
        • 14980
        • central MI, USA
        • Follow me on Instagram, huskeesbarbecue

          Want a free bottle of whiskey? Check out my link to Flaviar.com, you join with it, we both get a $50 bottle free.

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        #5
        Welcome! You're good. Just take it up to 200+ and then hold it (faux cambro) for 1-2hrs to soften & delishify. 9 hrs sometimes mine are still at 130-150 (aka the danger zone). Next time, cook at 225-250, and you'll fare better.

        Comment

        • 101Airborne
          Club Member
          • Mar 2019
          • 31
          • Boulder Colorado

          #6
          Thanks for the responses. Am I correct in thinking that once the meat hits the 190-200 zone, the bacteria will be killed anyway? I realize I should have smoked it at 225, the truth is I'm just not happy with the pellet grill because it doesn't put out enough smoke for me compared to my charcoal grill , however my pellet grill has a setting called "low heat /high smoke" which puts out more smoke at 180 degrees than the other settings.

          The meat was also marinated in salt and the Big Bad Beef rub in Meathead's book. I'm not sure if that prevents the bacteria.

          The meat is still cooking along right now and is up to 146 at the 11hr mark . I appreciate all the responses from everyone. I'll wait a few more hours before I decide to toss it or eat it, based on what I am reading.

          Thanks to everyone

          Comment


          • Huskee
            Huskee commented
            Editing a comment
            No it doesn't prevent bacteria to salt meat to the level we commonly do for taste. You're right to wonder, smart of you. Bugs start getting killed at 140ish. Beef shouldn't have anything in it that wouldn't get killed at 140-200, I think you'll be fine.

          • jgreen
            jgreen commented
            Editing a comment
            I would run your low temp/high smoke setting only for the first hour, maybe two, at which point the meat will take on less smoke and you can turn up the temperature. Other option is to add a smoke tube.

          • CaptainMike
            CaptainMike commented
            Editing a comment
            Pellet poopers will never give you the bark of a stick burner or even a properly run charcoal grill, but my old Traeger makes very acceptable bark at 250-275. Something that is catching on is that we don't necessarily need 225 to get great results on a low & slow cook. Especially with those big clods of meat.
        • RonB
          Club Member
          • Apr 2016
          • 12686
          • Near Richmond VA
          • Weber Performer Deluxe
            SNS
            Pizza insert
            Rotisserie
            Smokenator 1000
            Cookshack Smokette Elite
            2 Thermapens
            Chefalarm
            Dot
            lots of probes.
            CyberQ

          #7
          Welcome to The Pit.

          Comment

          • Troutman
            Club Member
            • Aug 2017
            • 7198

            • OUTDOOR COOKERS

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            #8
            Welcome to the Pit from the Republic of Texas. And please, for your own and your family's sake, don't do that again ok? We'll give you a pass this time but safety should be everyone's #1 concern. Again welcome !!

            Comment

            • klflowers
              Club Member
              • Sep 2015
              • 3214
              • Tennessee

              #9
              Welcome from TN. I don't give advice on food safety - it is probably a miracle that I am still here based on some of the comments I read here on AR. Now that I am in such esteemed company though, I listen and learn...

              Comment

              • NapMaster
                Club Member
                • Jan 2019
                • 589
                • Denham Springs, LA
                • WebberSummitGold6burnerLP, ShotGunSmoker

                  Avid Armor Vacuum Sealer

                #10
                I'd eat it, once tender, and I wouldn't blink. Your not cooking a giant blob of ground meat. The vast majority of bugs were on the surface. I repeat, were on the surface. They are dead either from the heat or the choked to death on the smoke.

                Also, what's a little diarrhea between friends!

                Almost forgot to say welcome from Louisiana and thanks for your service.
                Last edited by NapMaster; April 5, 2019, 08:10 PM.

                Comment


                • Lock Stock and Barrel
                  Lock Stock and Barrel commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Dead is dead! If you heat it to 203. It was in the pit the entire time and smoke is a powerful bacteria inhibitor... see smoking hams and you will know this was not a bacteria fest over 9 hours.
              • CaptainMike
                Club Member
                • Nov 2015
                • 2466
                • The Great State of Jefferson
                • Weber Summit Charcoal Grill w/SnS and DnG (Spartacus)
                  Old school big'ol Traeger w/Pro controller (Big Tex)
                  2 W22's w/SnS, DnG (1 black, 1 copper) (Minions 1 and 2)
                  20+ y/o many times rebuilt Weber Genesis w/GrillGrates (Gas Passer)
                  20 x 30 Santa Maria grill (Maria, duh)
                  Bradley cabinet smoker (Pepper Gomez)
                  36" Blackstone griddle (The Black Beauty)
                  Fireboard
                  Thermoworks Smoke and Thermapen.

                #11
                So, how did it turn out?

                Comment

                • fzxdoc
                  Founding Member
                  • Jul 2014
                  • 5072
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                  #12
                  Here's what Meathead says in the link that CaptainMike provided in the #4 post here:

                  Cooking must be done at an air temperature of 175°F or higher unless you are cooking sous vide, in a vacuum sealed plastic bag hot water bath. That means your oven, frying oil, or boiling water must be above 175°F.


                  So it looks as though at 180° cooking temp, assuming it was the air temp around your brisket, you were just OK.

                  As Troutman said, do yourself a favor and save the worry by not cooking at that temp for more than a couple of hours any more.

                  BBQing has one of the most interesting learning curves of any cooking endeavor, and you've come to the right place here at Amazing Ribs to get solid info to help you up that learning curve quickly and safely. It sure has helped me over the years.

                  Welcome to the Pit!

                  Kathryn
                  Last edited by fzxdoc; April 6, 2019, 07:26 AM.

                  Comment

                  • Polarbear777
                    Club Member
                    • Sep 2016
                    • 1684

                    #13
                    The real question is how high the internal temp of the meat was. If it wasn’t below 132 for more than a few hours it’s probably fine. Yes 203 internal will kill most things, but I think there’s no reason to allow the bugs to multiply too much before that as there are things the bugs make that aren’t good either.

                    Though I’m guessing it will end up drier than it would otherwise due to the extra time (I’ve had fire go out on me and experienced that even though the meat was safe-I had a probe in it. ).

                    Comment

                    • JGo37
                      Club Member
                      • Apr 2018
                      • 1576
                      • the LOU
                      • Cookers:

                        22" Blackstone Griddle, with stand & hood
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                        Accessories:

                        Ancient heavy CI Propane Turkey Fryer, for lighting chimneys
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                        My Helpers:

                        Anova 900W Sous Vide Cooker w/Radios
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                        & the PIT!

                      #14
                      I am thinking that pasteurizing the meat properly on the way back up to a tenderizing temperature relieves all worries?

                      Comment


                      • fzxdoc
                        fzxdoc commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Nope. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. At unsafe temps heat-resistant pathogens can also be created. They don't get killed off.

                        Kathryn

                      • JGo37
                        JGo37 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        fzxdoc thanks, I'll research this and school up.

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