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Help Scaling Up Rub & Sauce Recipes

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  • MeatMonster
    Former Member
    • Mar 2017
    • 606
    • Ellon, Aberdeenshire

    Help Scaling Up Rub & Sauce Recipes

    Hi Folks - I am routinely using Meathead Rubs and sauces for larger scale cooks. Is there any info in the forums or on the site about scaling up the recipes.

    I assume it is not a simple case of multiplying ingredients by a common factor. Or maybe I'm over thinking it?

    Grateful for advice, pointers to existing content or even a walk through!

    Cheers.
    Last edited by MeatMonster; January 17, 2019, 04:42 PM.
  • MBMorgan
    Club Member
    • Sep 2015
    • 6191
    • Colorado
    • > Weber Genesis EP-330
      > Grilla Grills Original Grilla (OG) pellet smoker
      > Pit Barrel Cooker (gone to a new home)
      > WeberQ 2000 (on "loan" to a relative)
      > Old Smokey Electric (for chickens mostly - when it's too nasty out
      to fiddle with a more capable cooker)
      > Luhr Jensen Little Chief Electric - Top Loader circa 1990 (smoked fish & jerky)
      > Thermoworks Smoke
      > 3 Thermoworks Chef Alarms
      > Thermoworks Thermapen
      > Thermoworks IR-GUN-S
      > Anova sous vide circulator
      > Searzall torch
      > BBQ Guru Rib Ring

      > Favorite Beer: Guinness Extra Stout, Fat Tire, Anchor Steam, or Alaskan Amber
      > Favorite Wine: Klinker Brick Old Ghost Zinfandel or Matetic Corralillo Winemaker's Blend
      > Favorite Whiskey: Balvenie Double Wood Scotch or Jameson Irish

    #2
    If you are willing to measure your ingredients by weight, then its very easy to scale up or down. Bakers do it that way routinely and I've adapted an Excel spreadsheet to easily do the same thing for any ingredients (wet or dry) by weight.

    Here's a couple of discussions from a while back in the Pit (Fair warning: Not everyone is a fan):

    https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...-not-for-bread

    https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...y-%F0%9F%91%8D

    If you're interested, I'll be happy to dig up the link to my Ingredients-by-weight spreadsheet for you (it's in Dropbox).

    EDIT: HERE is the link to the most current version of the spreadsheet (last updated 9 May 2019)
    Last edited by MBMorgan; May 9, 2019, 11:57 AM.

    Comment


    • HouseHomey
      HouseHomey commented
      Editing a comment
      Very well done sir!!! Mad props. Now in need to down load that darn box thing.

    • holehogg
      holehogg commented
      Editing a comment
      Plenty Thanks Sir

    • surfdog
      surfdog commented
      Editing a comment
      THAT is a thing of beauty.
      Nicely done.
  • IowaGirl
    Club Member
    • Dec 2018
    • 609
    • Northeast Iowa, USA

    #3
    For most ingredients, yes, it is a case of just multiplying by a scaling factor. (Meat cure ("pink salt") is one exception to this rule.) Volume measurements work fine, but I think measuring large volumes can be cumbersome and messy. Also the packing of powders can vary from batch to batch, so if you're looking for consistency, measuring by volume can introduce more error than you might want.

    More and more, I'm converting my cooking recipes from volume to weight measurements for a couple of reasons. As MBMorgan explained, it's easier to scale a weight-based recipe up or down. Also measuring by weight is easier and tidier -- just pour or scoop ingredients directly into the mixing bowl. No measuring cups or spoons are needed.

    To convert a recipe, I print out a copy of the recipe, get out my scale and measuring cups and spoons. As I measure each ingredient by volume, I check the weight and write that down on the printed page. It's a fiddly process the first time, but then the hard work is done and the next batch goes much faster.

    For general kitchen use, I like the MyWeigh KD7000 scale. It's durable, easy to use, large enough to handle big bowls, and not terribly expensive. It can measure grams, ounces, or pounds and weigh up to 7 kilograms / 15 pounds. The KD8000 is essentially the same scale except it can weigh up to 8 kilograms / 17.6 pounds.
    Last edited by IowaGirl; January 17, 2019, 01:52 PM.

    Comment

    • MeatMonster
      Former Member
      • Mar 2017
      • 606
      • Ellon, Aberdeenshire

      #4
      A very big thanks to MBMorgan and IowaGirl!!!!

      Comment


      • MeatMonster
        MeatMonster commented
        Editing a comment
        MBMorgan Hi MB - I would appreciate a quick explanation on the concept of Bakers %. If I am faced with a recipe which has multiple ingredients, is it as simple as picking the ingredient which has the largest quantity?

      • MBMorgan
        MBMorgan commented
        Editing a comment
        The simplest and shortest answer to your question is "yes". Just pick the ingredient in your recipe that is dominant (greatest weight) and flag it in the spreadsheet by entering "1" in the "100% Flag" column.

        If you look at the MMD tabs in the spreadsheet, the dominant ingredient is "sugar". Meathead's recipe calls for 3/4 cup white and 3/4 cup brown sugar. Both are "sugar" so both get flagged. Excel sums their weights and calcs the %weight of all other ingredients to keep the ratios constant.

      • MeatMonster
        MeatMonster commented
        Editing a comment
        Cheers!
    • HouseHomey
      Club Member
      • May 2016
      • 5259
      • Huntington Beach, Ca. Surf City USA.
      • Equipment
        Primo Oval xl

        Slow n Sear (two)
        Drip n Griddle
        22" Weber Kettle
        26" Weber Kettle one touch
        Blackstone 36” Pro Series
        Sous vide machine
        Kitchen Aid
        Meat grinder
        sausage stuffer
        5 Crock Pots
        Akootrimonts
        Two chimneys (was 3 but rivets finally popped, down to 1)
        cast iron pans,
        Dutch ovens
        Signals 4 probe, thermapens, chef alarms, Dots, thermapop and maverick T-732, RTC-600, pro needle and various pocket instareads.
        The help and preferences
        1 extra fridge and a deep chest freezer in the garage
        KBB
        FOGO
        A 9 year old princess foster child
        Patience and old patio furniture
        "Baby Girl" The cat

        Erik S.

      #5
      Also check out a very handy “ the book of yields.” I love it.

      Comment

      • Santamarina
        Club Member
        • Aug 2018
        • 733
        • Wildomar, CA

        #6
        I’ve been meaning to convert my recipes to weight, but I’ve been too lazy. As a homebrewer, I’ve got scales that will measure fractions of a gram (though with hops fractions of an oz are precise enough), so I can get very precise with small amounts. One of these days I’ll do it. Weight is definitely the way to go for consistency, since grind is not always consistent.

        With brewing it’s not a linear scale. If you’re taking a 5-gallon recipe and scaling it up to 15-barrels you’re going to need to make some adjustments. Though for rubs it shouldn’t change. You may make a large batch of rub, but you’re still rubbing a piece of meat that’s the same size.

        If you’re cooking for 1000 people you’re not going to cook a 450 lb brisket, you’re going to cook 30 regular size briskets; so your rub ratio wouldn’t change, you’d just need more of it!

        Comment

        • JimLinebarger
          Club Member
          • Jun 2017
          • 792
          • Spokane Valley, Wa.
          • Grills/Smokers
            Blaze 32" 4-Burner Gas Grill w/infrared rear rotisserie burner
            Weber Jumbo Joe
            Weber 22" Master-Touch Kettle
            Pit Barrel Cooker
            Great Outdoors Smoky Mountain Series 36" Vertical Gas Smoker
            Traeger Timberline 850

            Thermometers
            Thermoworks Smoke
            Maverick ET-733
            Thermapen Mk4, Red

            Sous Vide
            Anova Culinary Sous Vide Precision Cooker, Bluetooth, 800W
            Anova Precision Cooker Insulated Container
            Lipavi C15 container and lid
            Lipavi L15 Rack

            Accessories
            SNS
            BBQ Guru DigiQ (for PBC and 22" Weber Kettle)
            BBQ Dragon
            BBQ Dragon Grill Table for 22" Weber Kettle
            Fire Butler (for Weber 22")
            Grill Grates for Jumbo Joe and Blaze grill
            Hovergrill

            About me
            Name: Jim
            Nick name: Bear
            Location: Spokane Valley, Wa.
            Born at a very young age at Egland AFB, Ft. Walton Beach, FL.

            USAF vet, ECM (F4 & B52)/B52 Crew Chief, Computer Systems NCO, disabled
            Former Computer Tech/Admin
            Campus Manager/Lead Tech/Tech (IT) for The Kemtah Group contracted to Intel, Rio Rancho, NM.
            Short Term Missionary to the Marshall Islands with MAPS of DFM of AOG

          #7
          I have been using the following url to divide or multiply recipes. The issue is when it converts something to 1/8 cup or the like. I end up having to do each ingredient manually after the conversion.

          Comment

          • MeatMonster
            Former Member
            • Mar 2017
            • 606
            • Ellon, Aberdeenshire

            #8
            Hi MBMorgan can you check my homework for me. Just ran through an upscaling of Meatheads Kansas BBQ sauce (minus honey). Any view on what should be flagged - is it good enough just to flag the tom sauce or would you flag anything else. I flagged tom sauce and the sugar given they seemed the largest. Cheers Mate.

            Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture.PNG
Views:	130
Size:	135.6 KB
ID:	676404

            Comment


            • MBMorgan
              MBMorgan commented
              Editing a comment
              You really only need to flag 1 ingredient type. In your example, I would simply flag Ketchup because it is an ingredient type in itself and it is the largest by weight.

              If you had a recipe that included several types of sugar (say white, brown, and turbinado) that together add up to the greatest total ingredient type ("sugar") by weight, then I would flag all three.

            • MeatMonster
              MeatMonster commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks, understood.
          • jfmorris
            Club Member
            • Nov 2017
            • 3005
            • Huntsville, Alabama
            • Jim Morris

              Cookers
              • Camp Chef FTG900 Flat Top Grill (2020)
              • Weber Genesis II E-410 w/ GrillGrates (2019)
              • Weber Performer Deluxe 22.5" w/ GrillGrates & Slow 'N Sear & Drip ‘N Griddle & Party Q (2007)
              • Custom Built Offset Smoker (304SS, 22"x34" grate, circa 1985)
              • King Kooker 94/90TKD 105K/60K dual burner patio stove
              • Lodge L8D03 5 quart dutch oven
              • Lodge L10SK3 12" skillet
              • Anova
              Thermometers
              • Thermoworks Smoke w/ Wifi Gateway
              • Thermoworks Dot
              • Thermoworks Thermapen Classic
              • Thermoworks RT600C
              Beverages
              • Whatever I brewed and have on tap!

            #9
            I have often scaled sauce and rub recipes. It really *IS* simply multiplying all ingredients by the scale you want. If you want to double the recipe, double everything IN the recipe - spices and liquids. If you want to triple or quadruple - same thing.

            Comment

            • LA Pork Butt
              Charter Member
              • Dec 2014
              • 5347
              • Grew up in New Orleans, lived in Texas for 20 years, lived in Mandeville, LA for 22 years. I now liv

              #10
              I convert the recipe from measurements to parts. That way I can easily scale to any size. You chose the measurement size - Tablespoon or Cup or whatever - and count out each ingredient by the number of parts.

              Comment

              • MBMorgan
                Club Member
                • Sep 2015
                • 6191
                • Colorado
                • > Weber Genesis EP-330
                  > Grilla Grills Original Grilla (OG) pellet smoker
                  > Pit Barrel Cooker (gone to a new home)
                  > WeberQ 2000 (on "loan" to a relative)
                  > Old Smokey Electric (for chickens mostly - when it's too nasty out
                  to fiddle with a more capable cooker)
                  > Luhr Jensen Little Chief Electric - Top Loader circa 1990 (smoked fish & jerky)
                  > Thermoworks Smoke
                  > 3 Thermoworks Chef Alarms
                  > Thermoworks Thermapen
                  > Thermoworks IR-GUN-S
                  > Anova sous vide circulator
                  > Searzall torch
                  > BBQ Guru Rib Ring

                  > Favorite Beer: Guinness Extra Stout, Fat Tire, Anchor Steam, or Alaskan Amber
                  > Favorite Wine: Klinker Brick Old Ghost Zinfandel or Matetic Corralillo Winemaker's Blend
                  > Favorite Whiskey: Balvenie Double Wood Scotch or Jameson Irish

                #11
                Originally posted by MeatMonster View Post
                Hi MBMorgan can you check my homework for me. Just ran through an upscaling of Meatheads Kansas BBQ sauce (minus honey). Any view on what should be flagged - is it good enough just to flag the tom sauce or would you flag anything else. I flagged tom sauce and the sugar given they seemed the largest. Cheers Mate.

                Click image for larger version  Name:	Capture.PNG Views:	1 Size:	135.6 KB ID:	676404
                MeatMonster - Firstly, what you did was totally correct (except maybe flagging two different ingredient types as "100%" Ingredient" ... which does no harm to the functioning of the spreadsheet).

                I entered the same recipe into my copy of the spreadsheet and what I did differs only in personal style from what you entered:

                Click image for larger version  Name:	Spreadsheet KC BBQ Sauce for MeatMonster.JPG Views:	1 Size:	155.5 KB ID:	676471

                1. I entered the original recipe ingredients in the same order as listed in Meathead 's original (because I'm lazy).
                2. I entered ALL original ingredients and simply zeroed out the weight for those not used (e.g., Honey).
                3. I created a section below the original ingredients for "Modifications/Substitutions".
                4. I only flagged one "Ingredient Type" (Ketchup) as the "100% Ingredient" (you have to flag at least one).

                As you can see, the scaled amounts in my version are exactly the same as in yours.

                I like to use this spreadsheet as a sort of "digital recipe box" which is why I try to preserve the entire original recipe (plus my modifications/substitutions) in case I ever want to revisit the original for purposes of modifying it further.

                Comment

                • Bkhuna
                  Club Member
                  • Apr 2019
                  • 485
                  • Merritt Island Florida

                  #12
                  It would be so simple if recipes were in metric.

                  Yeah, I know what your going to say. But I spent 40 years in analytical chemistry and research labs. That's just the way I think.

                  Comment


                  • Donw
                    Donw commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Amen!

                  • surfdog
                    surfdog commented
                    Editing a comment
                    First thing I did when starting in a new kitchen was convert all of the recipes over to metric.
                    I still do the same for my personal recipes.

                    If you can count to ten you're half way there!
                • MBMorgan
                  Club Member
                  • Sep 2015
                  • 6191
                  • Colorado
                  • > Weber Genesis EP-330
                    > Grilla Grills Original Grilla (OG) pellet smoker
                    > Pit Barrel Cooker (gone to a new home)
                    > WeberQ 2000 (on "loan" to a relative)
                    > Old Smokey Electric (for chickens mostly - when it's too nasty out
                    to fiddle with a more capable cooker)
                    > Luhr Jensen Little Chief Electric - Top Loader circa 1990 (smoked fish & jerky)
                    > Thermoworks Smoke
                    > 3 Thermoworks Chef Alarms
                    > Thermoworks Thermapen
                    > Thermoworks IR-GUN-S
                    > Anova sous vide circulator
                    > Searzall torch
                    > BBQ Guru Rib Ring

                    > Favorite Beer: Guinness Extra Stout, Fat Tire, Anchor Steam, or Alaskan Amber
                    > Favorite Wine: Klinker Brick Old Ghost Zinfandel or Matetic Corralillo Winemaker's Blend
                    > Favorite Whiskey: Balvenie Double Wood Scotch or Jameson Irish

                  #13
                  I've corrected an error in the spreadsheet (not a big error ... just replaced a missing "Blank Worksheet"). Otherwise, the spreadsheet is identical to the one you've been using. I've also renamed the spreadsheet to remove the version number from the file name (because it's a real PITA when I need to replace an old version with one that is newer).

                  HERE is the DropBox link to the most current version.

                  Comment

                  • MeatMonster
                    Former Member
                    • Mar 2017
                    • 606
                    • Ellon, Aberdeenshire

                    #14
                    Originally posted by MBMorgan View Post

                    MeatMonster - Firstly, what you did was totally correct (except maybe flagging two different ingredient types as "100%" Ingredient" ... which does no harm to the functioning of the spreadsheet).

                    I entered the same recipe into my copy of the spreadsheet and what I did differs only in personal style from what you entered:

                    Click image for larger version Name:	Spreadsheet KC BBQ Sauce for MeatMonster.JPG Views:	1 Size:	155.5 KB ID:	676471

                    1. I entered the original recipe ingredients in the same order as listed in Meathead 's original (because I'm lazy).
                    2. I entered ALL original ingredients and simply zeroed out the weight for those not used (e.g., Honey).
                    3. I created a section below the original ingredients for "Modifications/Substitutions".
                    4. I only flagged one "Ingredient Type" (Ketchup) as the "100% Ingredient" (you have to flag at least one).

                    As you can see, the scaled amounts in my version are exactly the same as in yours.

                    I like to use this spreadsheet as a sort of "digital recipe box" which is why I try to preserve the entire original recipe (plus my modifications/substitutions) in case I ever want to revisit the original for purposes of modifying it further.
                    Thanks so much! Indeed I have taken a copy of your sheet and started adding recipies once I get a few more in, happy to shoot it back here in case you want them.

                    Comment


                    • MBMorgan
                      MBMorgan commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Absolutely! As mentioned, I'm using the spreadsheet as a sort of digital recipe box and I'd be happy to take any recipes that you (or anyone else) would like to share with the Pit ... and I'll do my best to keep the linked DropBox spreadsheet up to date with any new addtions.
                  • MBMorgan
                    Club Member
                    • Sep 2015
                    • 6191
                    • Colorado
                    • > Weber Genesis EP-330
                      > Grilla Grills Original Grilla (OG) pellet smoker
                      > Pit Barrel Cooker (gone to a new home)
                      > WeberQ 2000 (on "loan" to a relative)
                      > Old Smokey Electric (for chickens mostly - when it's too nasty out
                      to fiddle with a more capable cooker)
                      > Luhr Jensen Little Chief Electric - Top Loader circa 1990 (smoked fish & jerky)
                      > Thermoworks Smoke
                      > 3 Thermoworks Chef Alarms
                      > Thermoworks Thermapen
                      > Thermoworks IR-GUN-S
                      > Anova sous vide circulator
                      > Searzall torch
                      > BBQ Guru Rib Ring

                      > Favorite Beer: Guinness Extra Stout, Fat Tire, Anchor Steam, or Alaskan Amber
                      > Favorite Wine: Klinker Brick Old Ghost Zinfandel or Matetic Corralillo Winemaker's Blend
                      > Favorite Whiskey: Balvenie Double Wood Scotch or Jameson Irish

                    #15
                    Originally posted by LA Pork Butt View Post
                    I convert the recipe from measurements to parts. That way I can easily scale to any size. You chose the measurement size - Tablespoon or Cup or whatever - and count out each ingredient by the number of parts.
                    That's exactly what the spreadsheet does ... except that the default "measurement size" is some unit of weight (grams, ounces, pounds, kilograms, etc.) instead of a unit of volume. I tried it your way and ran into problems when I was trying to scale a recipe whose smallest ingredient measure was something like 1/8 teaspoon and whose largest ingredient measure was one or more cups. To make the scaling work, I would have to convert everything to 1/8th teaspoons which, in the case of a cup is 384 1/8 tsp.

                    I'm not suggesting that your method is wrong (it's not) but, for a variety of reasons (some involving ease of cleanup ... remember, I'm lazy), I just pretty much switched over to ingredients by weight for those recipes where it makes sense to do so.

                    Comment


                    • LA Pork Butt
                      LA Pork Butt commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I agree it sometimes can be complicated, but it works most of the time pretty easy for me. I keep in mind that 3 teaspoons = 1 Tablespoon and 2 Tablespoons = an ounce (1/8 of a cup). That helps with the conversion of the parts.

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