I’ve smoked salmon 3-4 times now and have a question about IT serving temps. MH throws a caution flag in his book saying cook to 160 if you plan on leaving it out as an appitizer at room temp. I tend to like my salmon just past raw in the center. My cooks have slowly reduced serving temp from 160 to 140. Each time I felt it was overdone for my taste so next time I’m gonna pull it at 130. I usually serve it as an appetizer and it gets consumed within 15-20 minutes of serving. Is that ok?
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This is where food safety kind of comes in. At the end of the day, people are consuming raw salmon/tuna at Sushi restaurants. What kind of risk are you willing to take? Under technicality, if you are brining correctly, and applying enough smoke, and the fish is not laden with moisture, the temp doesn't matter as much. Bacteria cannot survive in those conditions. It sounds more like you are after a cold smoke though, perhaps next time It would be best to look at cold smoking rather than a hot smoke. Personally I will smoke my trout/salmon until I/T of 130, but I make damn sure to brine correctly, and not mishandle the meat.-
It's just like any food. Keep your hands washed, don't let the food sit out at room temp for too long when preparing, make sure the brine has the correct salt content. Most books about smoking will explain the amount of salt you need to make the brine solution. -
IT of 130 is not cold smoked. Cold smoked is usually under 85 f. well below the temp that proteins are becoming denatured. At 130 it is medium rare the same as a piece of beef steak. Brine concentration is not relevant for this type of cook. Even unsalted, it would be safe to eat, but don't leave it out for long periods of time. -
HorseDoctor I wasn't stating that 130 is cold smoke temps, I was stating that I smoke my fish to a temp of 130, and that perhaps Smokenoob would rather have cold smoked fish as he enjoys it rare.
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thanks!Comment
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When serving sashimi or tartar, in theory, the meat goes directly from the fridge to the consumer to be eaten. Limiting the exposure as much as possible. Under cooking something is quite different, as the food is sitting in the danger zone for a longer period of time as it comes up to temp. (Much more on that here)
Salmon can be cooked at a lower temperature, like say, to 121 F (my favorite). Sous Vide is a great way to do this.. You have pasteurization from both time and temp. In this case, with the lower finishing temps, timing is critical.
When making Meatheads Fancy Schmancy Salmon, I take the meat off at about 140 F, no lower. Then it cooks for about 5-10 mins after that, to rest at about 150 F. Taking the food off at 130 F and serving it as an appetizer can be troublesome. I am not saying it is a 100% guarantee that you are going to make some one sick. I am saying your chances are much higher the lower the finishing temp you choose. As I mentioned above, you can use a lower finishing temp, but it much be held at the lower temp to ensure pasteurization. Also, start with the freshest fish you can find.
smokenoob
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Another example of Amazing. As I sit here munching on some pretzels & sipping a M Dew, I’m reading about the ins & outs of temp & salmon safety. This site & you guys (& gals) always impress the H out of me.Comment
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Thanks Spinaker, I read that link once but paid more attention now that I am looking for something. So is it safe to say that eating sushi straight from the fridge is safer than cooking it slowly? So, when I sear sushi grade tuna for 2 minutes a side, since it was in the bacteria multiplying temps for such a short time, odds are good safe? And, if I smoke the same sushi fish, it stays in a bacteria friendly temp for longer and odds are worse but not necessarily bad?Comment
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There is nothing wrong with slow smoking fish, as long as it is able to reach a microbial kill step. Yes, it does sit in the danger zone a bit longer, this is why we only recommend hot smoking fish. Taking it too at least 145 F by smoking is our kill step. We don't recommend cold smoking, because you have to accurately calculate time and temp properly in order to achieve the proper kill. But with hot smoking, you have an almost instant kill, once it reaches 145 F. In the Salmon recipe, the interior will be cooked to, with carryover, to an internal temp of 145 F, what the USDA deems to be safe for fish. There are cases every year where people get sick from eating raw meat at restaurants. Most places do not serve it that way because of the risk. Places that offer raw fish or other meat like this, train their people (hopefully) how to do it properly and safely to limit danger to the consumer.Originally posted by smokenoob View Post
When you are searing tuna, the outside might be contaminated, but the sear takes care of that. The meat inside can be eaten rare because no microbes have been introduced, it is inside the meat. (Unless you probe it with a unsanitary probe) Beef can be served the same way, with the exception of ground beef, but most don't find it appetizing.
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And that is why brine concentration can be relevant, right? If you are going to have it be in the danger zone, brine could possibly make a difference?Comment
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